First Lybia, now maybe Syria, where next?

[Frenchieboy]

As I understand it NATO was originally only going to enforce a "No Fly Zone" in Lybia but is has escalated to such an extent there is now talk of sending arms, military advisors and possibly ground troops.

Now things are starting up in Syria and it is quite possible that NATO will be asked to step in there too. There are other "Arab States" that are likely to face the same problems in the relatively near future, and again NATO will almost certainly be asked to step in and help out there too!

Where is it going to stop?

If we are going to be asked to continue going in to help other countries out that don't like their government how the heck are we going to finance all of this, especially after the Military Budget Cut Backs that this govenment has forced on us!

Why should we continue putting our lads at risk for the benefit of other countries.

What are your thoughts?

Edited April 26, 2011 by Frenchieboy

[Devon Fox]

I think the whole situation is a joke at the moment, We should not be playing with fire.

 

As far as the humanitarian issues are concerened, there are far more pressing situations around the World.

[Dr W]

Seems like apart from UK, France, US (to some extent) and now Italy everyone is doing the wise thing and keeping out of it.

[UKPoacher]

We won't be going into Syria. It's a totally different ball game where the pro democracy campaigners have no chance of overthrowing the rulers.

[Frenchieboy]

We won't be going into Syria. It's a totally different ball game where the pro democracy campaigners have no chance of overthrowing the rulers.

You may be right there mate, I hope so but I do have my doubts!

 

Just as a foot note - Let's try to keep the comments sensible and non-racist so that the thread doesn't get pulled. It will be interesting to see what different members opinions are.

[Vipa]

 

Why should we continue putting our lads at risk for the benefit of other countries.

 

 

Oil, Black Gold, Texas Tea.....

[Devon Fox]

Oil, Black Gold, Texas Tea.....

 

 

It really is that simple.

[NorfolkPoacher]

It really is that simple.

 

I totally agree.

but it would be interesting to look at the exact figures. oil makes billions and wars cost billions i wonder what the ratio is! I mean it isnt like we all have a huge deficit to sort out now is it?? atb

[Dr_Scholl]

I don't care what happens in that part of the world as long as the oil keeps flowing.

[Dr W]

I don't care what happens in that part of the world as long as the oil keeps flowing.

 

I guess spoken in jest but actually sums up the problem with American foreign policy

[Dr_Scholl]

I guess spoken in jest but actually sums up the problem with American foreign policy

 

As far as i'm concerned, we have no business in Libya or Syria. We don't get any oil from them and it isn't our war.

[Vipa]

I totally agree.

but it would be interesting to look at the exact figures. oil makes billions and wars cost billions i wonder what the ratio is! I mean it isnt like we all have a huge deficit to sort out now is it?? atb

 

It doesn't matter what the cost is in either dollars, stirling or lives... without oil there is absolutely no western civilisation... it literally ceases to exist... We are completely dependent on oil let alone addicted to it, to us and our way of lives it is not a luxury, it is a necesity, it has no substitute and there is nothing in the forseeable future that could replace it (for more than a fraction of a percent of the population)

 

Take a step back and do some quick research into what is produced from oil.. most people are blinkered and think of their car but transport is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

Stability in the middle east, where most of the planet's remaining reserves are, is paramount to our survival. If the west loses control of the arab states or at least fails to maintain the relative stability we have today, there is a strong posibility we could see an end to our society and way of life during our lifetimes! I am not scaremongering, this is fact, fact that 99% of the population have their heads buried in the sand to, not just here but in other western countries. The fastest collapse will be in the US because of the suburbs... their country is built on the premise that you will always have a car to get from home to... wherever... most european countries were designed prior to the invention of the automobile and so are designed more around horse and cart scale. They will still suffer the same collapse but perhaps not quite so accutely!

Edited April 26, 2011 by Vipa

[Dr W]

Wouldn't it therefore have been better for the US to spend the billions it spent on wars on research into alternative energies or are we still pretending that Iraq etc was about making the world a safer place?

Edited April 26, 2011 by Dr W

[NorfolkPoacher]

It doesn't matter what the cost is in either dollars, stirling or lives... without oil there is absolutely no western civilisation... it literally ceases to exist... We are completely dependent on oil let alone addicted to it, to us and our way of lives it is not a luxury, it is a necesity, it has no substitute and there is nothing in the forseeable future that could replace it (for more than a fraction of a percent of the population)

 

Take a step back and do some quick research into what is produced from oil.. most people are blinkered and think of their car but transport is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

Stability in the middle east, where most of the planet's remaining reserves are, is paramount to our survival. If the west loses control of the arab states or at least fails to maintain the relative stability we have today, there is a strong posibility we could see an end to our society and way of life during our lifetimes! I am not scaremongering, this is fact, fact that 99% of the population have their heads buried in the sand to, not just here but in other western countries. The fastest collapse will be in the US because of the suburbs... their country is built on the premise that you will always have a car to get from home to... wherever... most european countries were designed prior to the invention of the automobile and so are designed more around horse and cart scale. They will still suffer the same collapse but perhaps not quite so accutely!

 

I am fully aware of the fact crude oil is a major raw component in many manufactured products as well as the obvious fuels which turn the cogs of the civilised world. My previous post was originally agreeing with the fact that these recent conflict interventions are built out of securing oil fields and are purely for financial gain not protecting lives.

[Dr W]

As far as i'm concerned, we have no business in Libya or Syria. We don't get any oil from them and it isn't our war.

 

Supposedly Libya is about humanitarian issues not oil.

[kdubya]

It doesn't matter what the cost is in either dollars, stirling or lives... without oil there is absolutely no western civilisation... it literally ceases to exist... We are completely dependent on oil let alone addicted to it, to us and our way of lives it is not a luxury, it is a necesity, it has no substitute and there is nothing in the forseeable future that could replace it (for more than a fraction of a percent of the population)

 

Take a step back and do some quick research into what is produced from oil.. most people are blinkered and think of their car but transport is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

Stability in the middle east, where most of the planet's remaining reserves are, is paramount to our survival. If the west loses control of the arab states or at least fails to maintain the relative stability we have today, there is a strong posibility we could see an end to our society and way of life during our lifetimes! I am not scaremongering, this is fact, fact that 99% of the population have their heads buried in the sand to, not just here but in other western countries. The fastest collapse will be in the US because of the suburbs... their country is built on the premise that you will always have a car to get from home to... wherever... most european countries were designed prior to the invention of the automobile and so are designed more around horse and cart scale. They will still suffer the same collapse but perhaps not quite so accutely!

 

 

your not far wrong, but I doubt we will ever regain relative stability in the middle east and now north africa, our need for that stability is based on our need for a steady and constant supply of energy IE oil, I now sadly believe that we may see an oil war in the not to distant future, when the kid gloves come off and a global conflict for the control of oil reserves takes place, only question for me is who strikes first? the US and europe, or the chinese or russians, each is constantly sabre rattling to some extent each has massive capability its just who has the nerve to go first? my money is on the US needs must and all that.

 

KW

 

KW

[Vipa]

I am fully aware of the fact crude oil is a major raw component in many manufactured products as well as the obvious fuels which turn the cogs of the civilised world. My previous post was originally agreeing with the fact that these recent conflict interventions are built out of securing oil fields and are purely for financial gain not protecting lives.

 

wasn't attacking your post Norfolk, was purely rhetoric

[Vipa]

your not far wrong, but I doubt we will ever regain relative stability in the middle east and now north africa, our need for that stability is based on our need for a steady and constant supply of energy IE oil, I now sadly believe that we may see an oil war in the not to distant future, when the kid gloves come off and a global conflict for the control of oil reserves takes place, only question for me is who strikes first? the US and europe, or the chinese or russians, each is constantly sabre rattling to some extent each has massive capability its just who has the nerve to go first? my money is on the US needs must and all that.

 

KW

 

KW

 

Yup.... exactly what he said... certainly not a matter of if but very much when...!

[al4x]

Supposedly Libya is about humanitarian issues not oil.

 

Its interesting, I guess the sceptics all believe Gadaffi is sane, had nothing to do with the Lockerbie bombing and hasn't been lying about just about everything in this uprising. We're being very careful not to have to go in on the ground but it would be nice if all the Nato countries helped out

[Dr W]

Tongue firmly in cheek

[al4x]

the interesting thing is that the fastest way to get the oil flowing would be to keep Gadaffi in power and stop the uprising

[kdubya]

Supposedly Libya is about humanitarian issues not oil.

 

 

that will be right? I suppose thats why weve kept out of darfur , zimbabwe, or sudan then?

 

KW

[Dr_Scholl]

the interesting thing is that the fastest way to get the oil flowing would be to keep Gadaffi in power and stop the uprising

 

Which was just about to happen before Barry and friends decided to stick their noses in it.

[Vipa]

Wouldn't it therefore have been better for the US to spend the billions it spent on wars on research into alternative energies or are we still pretending that Iraq etc was about making the world a safer place?

 

A very interesting conversation took place in the 80s, if memory serves, between advisers to the (again... can't remember if it was late in the Regan administration or during the Bush 'the elder's' reign)... this is on record too!

 

It revolved around Hubbard's theory of peak oil and the realisation from the scientific community that he was actually correct, i.e. no finite resource can be infinite and at some point you will have used more than half and that from that point on you're in trouble because what is left will be in ever increasing demand and will be in ever decreasing supply, not to mention far more costly and difficult to get at..

 

The scientists turned round to the President' senior advisers and pointed out that this situation posed a very real threat to America moving forward and that the nation must start a program of developing alternatives to ensure the nation survived.

 

The response from the administration was

 

Administration "is this going to be a problem for us?"

Scientists "yes, very much so"

Administration "When do you expect it to become a problem?"

Scientists "We estimate somewhere during the first 2 decades of the 21st century"

Administration "OK then... come back when it starts to be a problem and we'll talk!"

 

The USA and the west is a reactionary society, we will do nothing but sit back and watch until the problems are knocking on our door but by that time it will be too late... It already is too late... it will take at least 50 years to bring any kind of replacement energy source up to speed and we only have a total of 40 years of oil left in the ground which means in reality we only have 10-15 years of affordable (to any degree) oil left down there.

 

So... let's think about this... 40 years to total depletion (at current consumption rates) so the planet will completely run dry in my lifetime... is there anything on the horizon which could conceivably replace oil? NO....

 

So, as KW says, there will be a war or wars to secure what's left. Once the western world has lost any sort of control over the stability of the Arab world, we will have no option but to invade! But we aren't the only ones... China.. Russia... the emerging industrialised nations... they are all now hooked!

 

Sorry to say, the next century is going to be a bloody one!

 

And remember, we are only talking about fuel here... we haven't even started on plastics which is the real huge white elephant in the room!

Edited April 26, 2011 by Vipa

[Vipa]

As far as i'm concerned, we have no business in Libya or Syria. We don't get any oil from them and it isn't our war.

 

It doesn't matter that we get very little oil from these countries, what does matter is that the socio-political state of these countries has a direct bearing on other Arab nations that we do, very heavily, rely on!