BLACK-GUN Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 As I understand it NATO was originally only going to enforce a "No Fly Zone" in Lybia but is has escalated to such an extent there is now talk of sending arms, military advisors and possibly ground troops. Now things are starting up in Syria and it is quite possible that NATO will be asked to step in there too. There are other "Arab States" that are likely to face the same problems in the relatively near future, and again NATO will almost certainly be asked to step in and help out there too! Where is it going to stop? If we are going to be asked to continue going in to help other countries out that don't like their government how the heck are we going to finance all of this, especially after the Military Budget Cut Backs that this govenment has forced on us! Why should we continue putting our lads at risk for the benefit of other countries. What are your thoughts? frenchieboy, i can tell you we have special forces on the ground in lybia now, and have been for over a month. :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 frenchieboy, i can tell you we have special forces on the ground in lybia now, and have been for over a month. :yp: thought they were in manchester? bet they had a laugh at the time? KW http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1380327/Operation-stupid-Bungling-van-thieves-bargain-stumbling-secret-SAS-drill.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK-GUN Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 thought they were in manchester? bet they had a laugh at the time? KW http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1380327/Operation-stupid-Bungling-van-thieves-bargain-stumbling-secret-SAS-drill.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 So... let's think about this... 40 years to total depletion (at current consumption rates) so the planet will completely run dry in my lifetime... is there anything on the horizon which could conceivably replace oil? NO.... So, as KW says, there will be a war or wars to secure what's left. Once the western world has lost any sort of control over the stability of the Arab world, we will have no option but to invade! But we aren't the only ones... China.. Russia... the emerging industrialised nations... they are all now hooked! Sorry to say, the next century is going to be a bloody one! And remember, we are only talking about fuel here... we haven't even started on plastics which is the real huge white elephant in the room! Interesting Vipa, do you have any links/references to back up your statements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) Interesting Vipa, do you have any links/references to back up your statements? Im not sure but as plastics can be made from scources other than petroleum products, I assume he is predicting a lack of cellulose? so perhaps a corn type war? who has all that then other than north america? russia who wants it then china KW Edited April 26, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) Interesting Vipa, do you have any links/references to back up your statements? Good lord... how many do you want... this has been in the public domain since Hubbert's findings in the 50s... here's the wikipedia page on peak oil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_demand#Demand_for_oil but just google 'peak oil' and you will find more resources than you can shake a stick at! Edited April 26, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Im not sure but as plastics can be made from scources other than petroleum products, I assume he is predicting a lack of cellulose? so perhaps a corn type war? who has all that then other than north america? russia who wants it then china KW And... cars can run on ethanol produced from corn.... but replacing the worlds petrol with corn derived ethanol isn't going to happen The fact remains that virtually all plastics today are manufactured from oil in one form or another.. our civilisation revolves around plastic and steel. Whilst there are alternative materials from which to manufacture polymers, just as there are alternative fuels to power cars, the technology does not exist on a scale that could replace the oil based product world wide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) And... cars can run on ethanol produced from corn.... but replacing the worlds petrol with corn derived ethanol isn't going to happen The fact remains that virtually all plastics today are manufactured from oil in one form or another.. our civilisation revolves around plastic and steel. Whilst there are alternative materials from which to manufacture polymers, just as there are alternative fuels to power cars, the technology does not exist on a scale that could replace the oil based product world wide... true but to produce enough ethanol you have to starve half the worlds population KW Edited April 26, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) KW Thanks Keith... haven't seen some of the footage on there before... have seen all the 'oil, smoke & mirrors' & 'A Crude Awakening' stuff before though.. All thought provoking stuff! I have copies of all the full documentaries if anyone wants a copy.... 'Oil Smoke & Mirrors,' 'A Crude Awakening,' 'The End of Suburbia' & 'Collapse' Edited April 26, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 true but to produce enough ethanol you have to starve half the worlds population KW Exactly... I think you and I are reading the same book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Exactly... I think you and I are reading the same book ever watched "end of suburbia" its starting to show some semblance of reality, as I know teeside power plant is starting to reduce its staff by two thirds and that it only plans limited time on the bars during the next (just started ) financial year, why? simple lack of availability of cheap gas, hold on to your hats when you open your bill next year :look: looks like old pram wheels and a plank could come in usefull again. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 ever watched "end of suburbia" its starting to show some semblance of reality, as I know teeside power plant is starting to reduce its staff by two thirds and that it only plans limited time on the bars during the next (just started ) financial year, why? simple lack of availability of cheap gas, hold on to your hats when you open your bill next year :look: looks like old pram wheels and a plank could come in usefull again. KW "end of suburbia" is one of my favourites.... not from a peak-oil, doom & gloom perspective but just from a historical standpoint... fascinating seeing how the 'burbs' grew and developed in the States! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 ever watched "end of suburbia" its starting to show some semblance of reality, as I know teeside power plant is starting to reduce its staff by two thirds and that it only plans limited time on the bars during the next (just started ) financial year, why? simple lack of availability of cheap gas, hold on to your hats when you open your bill next year :look: looks like old pram wheels and a plank could come in usefull again. KW Keith, from a technology standpoint, where does gas come into play? I thought teesside was nuclear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Keith, from a technology standpoint, where does gas come into play? I thought teesside was nuclear? no hartlepool ps is nuclear, teeside ( wilton) is the ex enron gas fired station. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Let's face it folks... (and I'm not some conspiracy theorist here!) The powers that be do not want to shout from the rooftops that we are in the poo... If the population as a whole got it's head out of the sand and the reality of our situation sank in there would be mass panic, riots, civil unrest and an inevitable and probably permanent breakdown in our society.. To be honest, the best thing for us right now is to allow the masses to go on in blissful ignorance, thinking the planet's resources are infinite... We are only prolonging the inevitable but the more time I have to prepare my kids for what they are probably going to have to face, the better... Long live blissful ignorance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 no hartlepool ps is nuclear, teeside ( wilton) is the ex enron gas fired station. KW ahh... I'm with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeNextTime Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) the interesting thing is that the fastest way to get the oil flowing would be to keep Gadaffi in power and stop the uprising Saudi has declared that it is investing in building nuclear power stations as its projected energy requirements by 2030 would mean it would have to use all it's oil internally leaving none for export. Despite the current high prices Saudi oil production has fallen by 800,000bb/d to 8.5 mbb/d. They insist that the market is over supplied and that no further increases in supply are necessary. I suspect they are unable to pump it out any faster than they already are and that their fields have already peaked. They are staring at the down slope with alarm. Of course if world production has peaked then we are about to slide down our own steep down slope in to the agrarian Olduvai future. Duncan's well argued theory puts us with the same access to energy in 2030 as we had in 1920. We'll know soon. Edited April 26, 2011 by MaybeNextTime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 I used to be a big believer in 'peak oil' and I still believe that one day we will reach peak oil as it's an inevitablity. However I don't subscribe to the doomsday prophecies that the 'peak oil' groupies throw about :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 unless there is oil in the country thats having problems i doubt we will hear about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeNextTime Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 I used to be a big believer in 'peak oil' and I still believe that one day we will reach peak oil as it's an inevitablity. However I don't subscribe to the doomsday prophecies that the 'peak oil' groupies throw about :unsure: It is well worth remembering that oil will not simply run out. Oil supply rates will dwindle causing successive price spikes as we go through boom and bust cycles. I don't believe in peak oil, peak oil is on it's way whether I believe in it or not. The only question is 'when?'. Mind you exactly the same can be said for the next Ice Age that will send mile high glaciers charging south burying the UK and most of northern Europe. Personally I can't do anything about either of those end games so I just enjoy today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) I think you're right MNT. We've seen one oil spike with it falling from $147 to $35. Oil isn't in short supply but the political environment at the moment may well send it up over $200 if the contagion spreads to Saudi, then it will fall back. This I guess is the future, a lot of hassle, trying to ride the peaks and troughs. A lot of pain but no stone age. As a "glass half full" kind of a person I think we'll overcome the energy problem. As for feeding 7 or 8 billion people on the planet, that's another problem! Edited April 26, 2011 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 As I understand it NATO was originally only going to enforce a "No Fly Zone" in Lybia but is has escalated to such an extent there is now talk of sending arms, military advisors and possibly ground troops. Now things are starting up in Syria and it is quite possible that NATO will be asked to step in there too. There are other "Arab States" that are likely to face the same problems in the relatively near future, and again NATO will almost certainly be asked to step in and help out there too! Where is it going to stop? If we are going to be asked to continue going in to help other countries out that don't like their government how the heck are we going to finance all of this, especially after the Military Budget Cut Backs that this govenment has forced on us! Why should we continue putting our lads at risk for the benefit of other countries. What are your thoughts? its a cluste **** thats all, i say leave them all to it give them some hardware let them kill each other, solves the no troops thingy and keeps the floopy haired hippys happy beacause the worlds not to over crowded... even better plan lets just carpet bomb the ******* lot of them and start from scratch job jobbed can you tell ime in a bad mood lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 true but to produce enough ethanol you have to starve half the worlds population KW i am liveing proof that man can life off ethanol for quite some time albet in diffrent form, mixed with milk :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 The crux of the Problem is not Oil or indeed lack of it. Its a complete lack of restraint in the reproduction cycle of the Human species globally. Man is an animal just like every other animal on the planet..OK so we are elegedly more intelligent and civilised but judged by what ? We are measuring our intelligence and evolutionary status on Human terms. Animals control their population to suit the available food source and vice versa and nothing else. The simple fact is we are s*****g ourselves into oblivion because the Planet, cannot support the levels of Population which are burgeoning out of all control. Lack of oil wont be a problem in 100 years time Theres still much much more to be discovered and as extraction technologies advance the oil which is dificult or uneconomic to extract currently, will also become available....Oil wont seriously deplete the Global population it will undoubtedly be a lack of foodstuffs nothing more. Incidently my father in law is a former Industrial Chemist who worked in Oil Exploration for 38 years..he tells me the production of Oil feilds in America peaked in the late 70,s and have been in decline ever since, hence the need for America to import at the levels they do. Even then 30 % of the worlds population consume nearly 60% of the World oil. War, Famine, and desease have always controlled mans population pre industrial revolution, which in the scheme of things is relatively recent...We must find a way not of discovering more oil but of utilising more natural power sources and also naturally reducing the Global population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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