wildfowler.250 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I was wondering if anyone on here could possibly give me some help with my gun cleaning please? I was cleaning the .270 for the first time after putting say 40 shots through it. I got everything fitted up and put my patch on the rod and attempted to push it through the barrel. The problem was that it got stuck at the start of the barrel. I managed to get the patch out and then tried usuing my .22CF rod and patches....worked as I was expecting. I then tried with the larger patches and the .22CF rod and that worked fine too. My main question is why is my larger rod getting stuck at the start of the barrel?,( I dont think it is going past where the round sits when the bolt is closed). I bought the rods off MacLeods so Im assuming they are the correct fit. should I just carry on with the larger patches and smaller rod? Also, how dry does the bore have to be before you can put a shot back through it? I was going to put a few dry patches through it once the gun is clean,(I have heard of oil down the barrel causing a buldge after a shot is fired). Finally, when is it appropriate to use phosphor brushes? Sorry for all the waffle! I really appreciate any thoughts on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudu Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Need to know a bit more:- What rod/size is it, I'm assuming a yellow parker hale type? What size jag? What size patches? And did you use any solvent on the patch? A correct fitting first patch doesn't go through the bore very easily without any solvent. Edited June 16, 2011 by Kudu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Need to know a bit more:- What rod/size is it, I'm assuming a yellow parker hale type? What size jag? What size patches? And did you use any solvent on the patch? A correct fitting first patch doesn't go through the bore very easily without any solvent. Sorry bud, It is a yellow rod,( I think I asked for proshot? but could be parker hale). I used butches bore shine on the patches. I'd say one patch is just under an inch and the other size is about double that, (both managed to go through fine with the .22 cal rod). I got the gun nice and clean with the larger patches and .22 rod so should i just forget the larger one? Do you use a phosphor brush much? Thanks for the reply and sorry for being so vague,(the patches didn't have a size written on them and the brushes ect just have .270 written on them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 When the patches are on the jag do they come down over the rod ?, if so that could be your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Sorry bud, It is a yellow rod,( I think I asked for proshot? but could be parker hale). I used butches bore shine on the patches. I'd say one patch is just under an inch and the other size is about double that, (both managed to go through fine with the .22 cal rod). I got the gun nice and clean with the larger patches and .22 rod so should i just forget the larger one? Do you use a phosphor brush much? Thanks for the reply and sorry for being so vague,(the patches didn't have a size written on them and the brushes ect just have .270 written on them). Yes..Regularly, but you must be careful with size and usage, and also some rifling is very fine, so take care. Always use it with some type of solvent. I will commonly patch out with an appropriate Bore Solvent and then scrub, etc etc...and don't stop cleaning until it is clean. Even with the best tools and solvents in the world this is NOT a 5 minute job. You will know if it is clean when you fire it, if it shoots straight it is clean, if it doesn't you have simply raised fouling down the barrel without removing it fully, commonly making the barrel worse than when you started! The trouble is in todays consumer driven, must have yesterday, I have no time to spare, market, many don't spend the time or care on cleaning and simply moan it doesn't work! It works VERY well, but you need to devote time to it! And don't forget, throat, crown, bolt, mod, etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 I think I have sussed whats wrong. The patches when they are on the jag are too thick to pass through the barrel. Frustratingly, I had the exact same problem today when I went to clean my new .22-250. the rod will go up the barrel without the patch but once the patch is on it gets jammed at the start of the barrel Basically the exact same problem as with the .270 so should I go back and ask for a .17 jag which will probably fit fine? This is seriously aggrivating When the patches are on the jag do they come down over the rod ?, if so that could be your problem. No bud, but I can see what you are getting at. I think the jag+patch itself is just too thick Have you got the right size jag is a good question? Im 95% sure I got handed jags that said .22CF and .270. But I think I need to get a smaller .22CF jag if thats possible? Yes..Regularly, but you must be careful with size and usage, and also some rifling is very fine, so take care. Always use it with some type of solvent. Would a light coating of Butches bore shine over the brush do the trick? What is you're method with the brush? Do you push it right through the crown and back or what? How many strokes does it usually take,(untill clean I guess)?I am worried I'll damage the gun tbh. I will commonly patch out with an appropriate Bore Solvent and then scrub, etc etc...and don't stop cleaning until it is clean. Even with the best tools and solvents in the world this is NOT a 5 minute job. You will know if it is clean when you fire it, if it shoots straight it is clean, if it doesn't you have simply raised fouling down the barrel without removing it fully, commonly making the barrel worse than when you started! Cheers for that. I assume it will take a shot or two to get back on zero and if not I need to clean again? And don't forget, throat, crown, bolt, mod, etc etc. How do you treat the crown and throat? I usually just give the end a touch of vasaline so the mod goes on nicely. All I really do with the mod is ensure it is dry before storage. Mine cant be stripped and hasn't seen that many shots anyway. I really appreciate the replies guys. The whole thing is annoying me and I want to look after my guns whithout damaging them. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 The patches I use for my rifles are a bit less than 1.5" round and are made of very thin cotton cloth. They are a tight fit. Just how hard are you trying to get it down the barrel? It does take quite a shove! Not like a shotgun which glides through with ease. Having said that, better safe than sorry. Don't force the issue and perhaps get some smaller patches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 the whole point of jags being specific to a calibre is so the will effectively clean that calibre. Buying a smaller jag just so it fits in the barrel is defeating the object completely. I bought some .30 cal patches to do my .308 and couldn't get them down the barrel, they were square. I then bought some .30 cal round patches and they work fine. As has been said already, should be a tight fit and require a little effort to get it in and through the bore, shouldn't be easy like a shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) Dekers, on 17 June 2011 - 10:17 AM, said: Yes..Regularly, but you must be careful with size and usage, and also some rifling is very fine, so take care. Always use it with some type of solvent. Would a light coating of Butches bore shine over the brush do the trick? What is you're method with the brush? Do you push it right through the crown and back or what? How many strokes does it usually take,(untill clean I guess)?I am worried I'll damage the gun tbh. I will commonly patch out with an appropriate Bore Solvent and then scrub, etc etc...and don't stop cleaning until it is clean. Even with the best tools and solvents in the world this is NOT a 5 minute job. You will know if it is clean when you fire it, if it shoots straight it is clean, if it doesn't you have simply raised fouling down the barrel without removing it fully, commonly making the barrel worse than when you started! Cheers for that. I assume it will take a shot or two to get back on zero and if not I need to clean again? And don't forget, throat, crown, bolt, mod, etc etc. How do you treat the crown and throat? I usually just give the end a touch of vasaline so the mod goes on nicely. All I really do with the mod is ensure it is dry before storage. Mine cant be stripped and hasn't seen that many shots anyway. Everyone will have their own cleaning methods and IF they clean the gun and it shoots straight then they work, but if they turn round and say it takes 10 or 20 or even 50 or more shots (as I have seen quoted) to get it back then they are NOT cleaning it properly! I've never used Butches bore shine but I suspect it's as good as any! Yep, the brush goes ALL the way through, and then sometimes back as well, not the best idea, it should really be one way traffic along the barrel. Only needs once or twice, then more solvent and patches, then repeat brush/solvent and patches/solvents, ...a couple of brushes is generally all that mine needs as all my rifles are cleaned very regularly, so there is never any great amount to clean, finish with patches and oil until they come out just about as good as they went in, they will never come out 100% clean as you will always pick up a trace! It will probably take a shot, at worst 2 to get back to zero, this is nothing to do with laying down lead/copper whatever, down the barrel, it is to do with clearing any traces of cleaning solvents/oil that may be left in the barrel! What you want is a good clean acurately made and well maintained barrel, you don't want a poor barrel where you have to lay down copper/lead whatever, into the imperfections to make it work to a level! There are various tools to clean the throat, a thin piece of dowel split/cut vertically down the end works (see pics of the one I knocked up for the .308, open, and rolled for inserting, just scale the dowel for smaller bores) you can then insert a patch into the split with cleaners/oils. There are plenty of brushes of all sorts available for this job too. I'm not sure I understood the Vaseline to make sure the mod goes on ok, the crown isn't the thread, it is the end of the barrel next to the bore, whether it be rimfire or centrefire the crown will get filthy, especially if you have a mod fitted, crowns are finished in many different ways but ensuring the crown and that final fraction of rifling it touches are clean can have a big effect on accuracy! Thinking about it, I can strip all my mods, the centrefire mods get stripped every use, the rimfires mods get the crud knocked out of them from time to time and a very rare full strip and clean. Not sure what others do to mods that don't strip, there are solvent and ultrasonic cleaners and many people just don't clean mods anyway. Let me make it clear I am not suggesting this is the only way to clean or necessarily the right way, but it works for me, many will have their own views, including the...I never clean mine and it works fine brigade. ATB! Edited June 17, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydebuilt Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 CZ, do you use a boreguide when cleaning the rifle? I'd strongly advise using one for both protection when trying to ram in an misaligned rod/jag and to stop barrel cleaner getting back out into into the action. I use patch-out foam and it is a really great product, combined with a few patches and a jag is all I really use. when finished, I run a patch with meths down the bore to remove any left over residue not picked up by the final run of clean patches and so far so good, zero stays the same, first shot cold barrel no probs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 CZ, do you use a boreguide when cleaning the rifle? I'd strongly advise using one for both protection when trying to ram in an misaligned rod/jag and to stop barrel cleaner getting back out into into the action. I use patch-out foam and it is a really great product, combined with a few patches and a jag is all I really use. when finished, I run a patch with meths down the bore to remove any left over residue not picked up by the final run of clean patches and so far so good, zero stays the same, first shot cold barrel no probs. Another new one on me, what's that, are we talking Forrest Bore Foam TYPE...I find that OK on larger bores but I'm not a great fan, and it's hopeless on small bores. The meths is an interesting one, but personally I favour leaving a hint of oil down the bore for protection until next use. I've not actually even considered the meths before, but it's an interesting possibility for final solvent removal from the bore! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydebuilt Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Dekers, See here for Wipe-Out foam and Patch-Out http://www.hps-tr.com/wipe-out.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Dekers, See here for Wipe-Out foam and Patch-Out http://www.hps-tr.com/wipe-out.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 First of all, thanks for all the replies! Really appreciate it The patches I use for my rifles are a bit less than 1.5" round and are made of very thin cotton cloth. They are a tight fit. Just how hard are you trying to get it down the barrel? It does take quite a shove! Not like a shotgun which glides through with ease. Having said that, better safe than sorry. Don't force the issue and perhaps get some smaller patches? Well that could be the issue. I have used shotguns since I was 'wee' and was taught everything by my old man. Rifles are something I have more or less picked up by myself. My patches are square and pretty thin,(although I have nothing to compaire them too). I was pushing a bit but I was unsure how much force to use. I did put a slight bend in the cleaning rod at one point whilst I was pushing it however I think this was more than likely to be how I was holding the rod/had the gun positioned. I am currently using a bipod and a small square bin,(for the stock end) to stabelise the gun. Would you suggest I give it another go and give it a good push? I will send you a small bill if I need a new shillen barrel as a result of damage the whole point of jags being specific to a calibre is so the will effectively clean that calibre. Buying a smaller jag just so it fits in the barrel is defeating the object completely. I bought some .30 cal patches to do my .308 and couldn't get them down the barrel, they were square. I then bought some .30 cal round patches and they work fine. As has been said already, should be a tight fit and require a little effort to get it in and through the bore, shouldn't be easy like a shotgun. I thought this might be the case with regards to jag size! It certainly couldn't hurt to try and get some round patches to see if that makes a difference. Is there anywhere you would recommend getting them from online for the .22cf and .270? I could always try my other local gun shop. I think I should maybe try new patches first before I persist with the square ones CZ, do you use a boreguide when cleaning the rifle? I'd strongly advise using one for both protection when trying to ram in an misaligned rod/jag and to stop barrel cleaner getting back out into into the action. I use patch-out foam and it is a really great product, combined with a few patches and a jag is all I really use. when finished, I run a patch with meths down the bore to remove any left over residue not picked up by the final run of clean patches and so far so good, zero stays the same, first shot cold barrel no probs. Thanks for the reply. I do use a boreguide. I got one of these 'universal' ones but I still had to file off some of it before the .22 cal would fit my gun I'm just about to take a look at the link you posted with regards to the bore foam. Would you recommend the "Forest" stuff? Also how well does it work with regards to the .22CF? I noticed Dekers mentioned that he found it poor on the smaller calibers. I will also take a look at the meths. So I am assuming the procedure is one meths patch after your dry patches are clean and you are good to go? Thanks again for all the replies guys! I am still on a major learning curve with the cleaning aspect of rifles so all the help is hugely appreciated :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Dekers, Thanks for a brilliant reply I am actually going to save that description on my computer! Dekers, on 17 June 2011 - 10:17 AM, said: Yes..Regularly, but you must be careful with size and usage, and also some rifling is very fine, so take care. Always use it with some type of solvent. Would a light coating of Butches bore shine over the brush do the trick? What is you're method with the brush? Do you push it right through the crown and back or what? How many strokes does it usually take,(untill clean I guess)?I am worried I'll damage the gun tbh. I will commonly patch out with an appropriate Bore Solvent and then scrub, etc etc...and don't stop cleaning until it is clean. Even with the best tools and solvents in the world this is NOT a 5 minute job. You will know if it is clean when you fire it, if it shoots straight it is clean, if it doesn't you have simply raised fouling down the barrel without removing it fully, commonly making the barrel worse than when you started! Cheers for that. I assume it will take a shot or two to get back on zero and if not I need to clean again? And don't forget, throat, crown, bolt, mod, etc etc. How do you treat the crown and throat? I usually just give the end a touch of vasaline so the mod goes on nicely. All I really do with the mod is ensure it is dry before storage. Mine cant be stripped and hasn't seen that many shots anyway. Everyone will have their own cleaning methods and IF they clean the gun and it shoots straight then they work, but if they turn round and say it takes 10 or 20 or even 50 or more shots (as I have seen quoted) to get it back then they are NOT cleaning it properly! I've never used Butches bore shine but I suspect it's as good as any! Yep, the brush goes ALL the way through, and then sometimes back as well, not the best idea, it should really be one way traffic along the barrel. Only needs once or twice, then more solvent and patches, then repeat brush/solvent and patches/solvents, ...a couple of brushes is generally all that mine needs as all my rifles are cleaned very regularly, so there is never any great amount to clean, finish with patches and oil until they come out just about as good as they went in, they will never come out 100% clean as you will always pick up a trace! It will probably take a shot, at worst 2 to get back to zero, this is nothing to do with laying down lead/copper whatever, down the barrel, it is to do with clearing any traces of cleaning solvents/oil that may be left in the barrel! What you want is a good clean acurately made and well maintained barrel, you don't want a poor barrel where you have to lay down copper/lead whatever, into the imperfections to make it work to a level! There are various tools to clean the throat, a thin piece of dowel split/cut vertically down the end works (see pics of the one I knocked up for the .308, open, and rolled for inserting, just scale the dowel for smaller bores) you can then insert a patch into the split with cleaners/oils. There are plenty of brushes of all sorts available for this job too. I'm not sure I understood the Vaseline to make sure the mod goes on ok, the crown isn't the thread, it is the end of the barrel next to the bore, whether it be rimfire or centrefire the crown will get filthy, especially if you have a mod fitted, crowns are finished in many different ways but ensuring the crown and that final fraction of rifling it touches are clean can have a big effect on accuracy! Thinking about it, I can strip all my mods, the centrefire mods get stripped every use, the rimfires mods get the crud knocked out of them from time to time and a very rare full strip and clean. Not sure what others do to mods that don't strip, there are solvent and ultrasonic cleaners and many people just don't clean mods anyway. Let me make it clear I am not suggesting this is the only way to clean or necessarily the right way, but it works for me, many will have their own views, including the...I never clean mine and it works fine brigade. ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Try wrapping your patch around your bronze brush instead of the jag . There is more give in the brush and it will slide down the barrel easier . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Try wrapping your patch around your bronze brush instead of the jag . There is more give in the brush and it will slide down the barrel easier . Harnser . ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Don't buy patches just cut up an old pillow case or T shirt. And if the patch is too tight cut it smaller. simples. However, the patch does have to be "bullet tight" to get into the grooves of the rifling to clean properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Don't buy patches just cut up an old pillow case or T shirt. And if the patch is too tight cut it smaller. simples. However, the patch does have to be "bullet tight" to get into the grooves of the rifling to clean properly. Thanks Vince. I did try cutting up the patches but it was getting a bit silly how much smaller they were getting is a think t-shirt just as effective? Suppose I'd need to scrap the bit once it comes out blue and use multiple but for dry patches as well? I think plan 1 is to try and use more force. Roughly how hard should you say I push? Plan 2 is to put the patch over a phos. brush. Plan 3 is new patches Cheers again guys! Given me something to work with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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