Bang 666 Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hello all I have been thinking about getting a rifle that is good for fox and rabbit but not sure what to get any ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 22 hornet 22 wmr anything bigger and no bunny left your better of with a 22lr and a 223 just for fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Nothing is ideal the better rabbit gun is a .22lr the better fox gun a .22 centrefire. Personally i do agree with many police areas that with the exeption of very short range or emergency rimfires are not great on fox with great placement they will do it though i shouldn't want to go out looking for charlie with one. .222 upwards will make a mess of quarry the size of rabbit and the Hornet doesn't run that far behind but it is perhaps here you should look if it had to be one gun. I once tried to harvest a rabbit or two with the .243" - i think it might be imposibble :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang 666 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Cheers for the info it's looking like I will be getting 2 rifles then ( what a shame) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Cheers for the info it's looking like I will be getting 2 rifles then ( what a shame) Yes, is the answer. If it has to be one, then as already said a WMR or Hornet. In reality a .22lr (or possibly a HMR) and a .22CF will give you much more versatility of ammo and quarry choices, including small deer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deputy dog Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 .17hmr and .223 if your going to get two rifles. .22lr IMHO is a very good lamping rifle but if your doing mostly daylight shooting for rabbits then .17 is far better. And goes with out saying the .223 covers both times of day. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 .17hmr and .223 if your going to get two rifles. .22lr IMHO is a very good lamping rifle but if your doing mostly daylight shooting for rabbits then .17 is far better. And goes with out saying the .223 covers both times of day. DD explain why please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 I shoot rabbits with a .222. 40gr Nosler and a relatively light load means that they are no more mangled than HMR, but it needs precision on fox. 40gr Blitzking minces the rabbits but doe the foxes. 22 Hornet is a good all-round gun, and certainly negates any thought of a 17HMR due to their very similar ballistics and 22 Hornet's considerably enhanced stopping power. You could also consider the 17 Fireball but they're a bit specialised. Ultimately, depending on amount of rabbits, shoot them with a 22 CF and put the bullet in the head if you want to eat the bunny. personally I am not a rabbit fan so they die for pure pest control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 The good news is that .22 rifles in bolt action can be really cheap if you are not too fussy. Not worth not having one really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) I shoot rabbits with a .222. 40gr Nosler and a relatively light load means that they are no more mangled than HMR, but it needs precision on fox. 40gr Blitzking minces the rabbits but doe the foxes. 22 Hornet is a good all-round gun, and certainly negates any thought of a 17HMR due to their very similar ballistics and 22 Hornet's considerably enhanced stopping power. You could also consider the 17 Fireball but they're a bit specialised. Ultimately, depending on amount of rabbits, shoot them with a 22 CF and put the bullet in the head if you want to eat the bunny. personally I am not a rabbit fan so they die for pure pest control. HMR and Hornet are not realy "balistically simililar", consirably increased stopping power? i should say so at almost three times the muzzle energy! major changes in windage with the right bullets are also very apparent past 100 yds. Speed wise its 150-600 fps faster depending on which factory load with a bullet thats over twice the weight as the .17 with a higher BC and hence hangs onto velocity better at range. Handloading can also bring the levels down to that of the WMR and below. Still if it were my only Rabbit and fox gun i would feel at a handicap, The .22 sub is of paramount importance to me for rabbits as is the .243" win for those long range or high wind foxing sesions. Edited July 3, 2011 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello all I have been thinking about getting a rifle that is good for fox and rabbit but not sure what to get any ideas if your shots are under 200 yards the .221 fire ball might be the one your looking for more accurate then .22 WMR and .22 hornet and not far behind .222. over 200 yards .223/ .22/250 head shots only on rabbit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I really wonder what FEO's must think when someone gets information off here and applies for a initial grant and first bunny gun with such ideas as 221 fireball :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindeye Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 (edited) if your shots are under 200 yards the .221 fire ball might be the one your looking for more accurate then .22 WMR and .22 hornet and not far behind .222. over 200 yards .223/ .22/250 head shots only on rabbit though. good luck on applying for a 22.250 to shot rabbits . Edited July 4, 2011 by blindeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 22 Hornet with 35 vmax or 45 SP is fairly similar to HMR in terms of trajectory. sure, you can, if you edit magazines etc, shoot the 40 Nosler ballistic tip at around 2800-2900fps and that holds up better. but it's a pain, so to go further I use a different gun! regarding energy, it starts with more but can lose it very fast. still better than hMR though. my point though was simple - I have yet to find a situation where I could use HMr but not Hornet. given the cost is the same assuming reloading for Hornet, then Hornet negates HMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Good luck to the OP justifying a hornet for rabbits to an FEO as a first rifle, if he gets it then its close to £1 a bang unless he also with little experience starts reloading. You get some bad advice on here and then some really bad advice. Best option is either an HMR or LR for rabbits and stick to close foxes if they will let you if they won't then you have an excuse for a centrefire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 22 Hornet with 35 vmax or 45 SP is fairly similar to HMR in terms of trajectory. sure, you can, if you edit magazines etc, shoot the 40 Nosler ballistic tip at around 2800-2900fps and that holds up better. but it's a pain, so to go further I use a different gun! regarding energy, it starts with more but can lose it very fast. still better than hMR though. my point though was simple - I have yet to find a situation where I could use HMr but not Hornet. given the cost is the same assuming reloading for Hornet, then Hornet negates HMR. 35 v max are very poor balistically they shed enegy like crazy giving a nil trajectory advantage however many 45 grain heads are quite good. My dope for my HMR and the Hornet are very, very different on trajectory. The RWS T mantle splitzer 46grn nocks spots off the hummer and is significantly better than other more common hornet bullets balistically. For example from a 120yds zero i can shoot within a 1" tunnel of point of aim to 140 yds and only need a 3 moa correction at 200 yds 5.64 @ 250 yds and 8.98 @300 yds. I have discounted using non hornet designated bullets for now as all the manufacturers say the same thing "they are too tough at Hornet speeds" Now try that with a hmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Good luck to the OP justifying a hornet for rabbits to an FEO as a first rifle, if he gets it then its close to £1 a bang unless he also with little experience starts reloading. You get some bad advice on here and then some really bad advice. Best option is either an HMR or LR for rabbits and stick to close foxes if they will let you if they won't then you have an excuse for a centrefire. £44 per hundred for factory loaded privi actually, as for re-loading yes it can be slightly cheaper than the HMR and it isnt the scary world you imagine. I am happy to pay more presently as i want to know what the gun can do and i value good brass highly. You need to bear in mind that in many areas justifying a hornet for rabbits is easier than getting any rimfire listed for fox. The hornet is never going to be a better rabbiting tool than a hmr or .22 lr but its a darn sight better for fox IMO . As for a first rifle? your getting too HMR superiour about ricochets there again. Hornet bullets are quite thin in the jackets and break up very well i have found, they have to be as it is meant for killing vermin at 200yds . Like i have said many times as have others in this very thread there isnt a shot i could take with one that i couldn't with the other- if you think there is a shot that is safe with the hmr that couldn't be taken with the hornet then you realy need to change either how you view guns you don't use personally or your over confidence in the hmr or one way or other it will come back to bite you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 How many FEO's grant centrefires for rabbits to new license holders though. Thats the big point you will flag up the nutter alert straight away. Much as I like my HMR and think they make ideal first rifles its not perfect, but then if I want to do anything much else I have the .223 and .243. you've had your hornet 2 minutes and its now the best idea for someone new to rifles, not only that you're trying to get the poor guy into reloading before he has even learned to shoot it, to me that has accident written all over it. FAC's are best one step at a time, start with a rimfire and if you can get fox on it then fine just be sensible with range. If you have a serious number of foxes then you have an excuse for a .223 or similar which urinates all over the hornet as a fox gun but really its best to gain some experience first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindeye Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 he is new to rifles and asked for advice . not slagging match . we all know no centrefire rifle is a rabbit calibre it just destroys the quarry.anyone who says its ok should be allowed a rifle , its common sense . the best rabbit gun out there is the 22lr followed by the 17hmr . give the bloke advice thats what he has asked for .after some time using these calibres then apply for a larger calibre to control foxes (centrefire) and i cant see a problem with any feo .i would go for 22lr for rabbits and after a few months apply for a 222,223,or the daddy of fox calibres 22.250 . dont start to understand how to reload your own ammo at the mo just get experience with the calibres first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 he is new to rifles and asked for advice . not slagging match . we all know no centrefire rifle is a rabbit calibre it just destroys the quarry.anyone who says its ok should be allowed a rifle , its common sense . the best rabbit gun out there is the 22lr followed by the 17hmr . give the bloke advice thats what he has asked for .after some time using these calibres then apply for a larger calibre to control foxes (centrefire) and i cant see a problem with any feo .i would go for 22lr for rabbits and after a few months apply for a 222,223,or the daddy of fox calibres 22.250 . dont start to understand how to reload your own ammo at the mo just get experience with the calibres first. Sorry but Hornet IS a rabbit calibre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Sorry but Hornet IS a rabbit calibre! Is that per the average FEO's opinion of an ideal first grant rabbit gun? as it sure isn't round here. At least Blindeye is somewhat more sane than pushing this iffy advice on a newbie Edited July 5, 2011 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swift Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I really wonder what FEO's must think when someone gets information off here and applies for a initial grant and first bunny gun with such ideas as 221 fireball :blink: the .221 fire ball is only slightly larger then the .22 hornet but more accurate in my findings and would make a nice sub 200 yard vermin round with out going over the top for a first CF rifle. I had no problem going for a .22/250 for fox and vermin on my first application and the same for Mrs with her .222. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 really he might as well go for a 308 and be done with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby -doo Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 wot bout the marmite caliber .204 , good all round killer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 How many FEO's grant centrefires for rabbits to new license holders though. Thats the big point you will flag up the nutter alert straight away. Much as I like my HMR and think they make ideal first rifles its not perfect, but then if I want to do anything much else I have the .223 and .243. you've had your hornet 2 minutes and its now the best idea for someone new to rifles, not only that you're trying to get the poor guy into reloading before he has even learned to shoot it, to me that has accident written all over it. FAC's are best one step at a time, start with a rimfire and if you can get fox on it then fine just be sensible with range. If you have a serious number of foxes then you have an excuse for a .223 or similar which urinates all over the hornet as a fox gun but really its best to gain some experience first. Yeah, gain some experiance al4x, it is a rabbit calibre it does do foxes and has been doing so for over 80 yrs before you came along, not ideal on rabbits but will render them useable. 17 hmr hold 49 ftlb of energy at 200 yds and will fail to expand correctly the Hornet has 187 ft lb at the same range 1.5" less drop and 4" less wind at 10mph. as a result of this and other failings I totally fail to see the HMR as a foxer - like i say so do many police areas!If it had to be a rimfire on FOX and Rabbits the only choice for myself would be the .22WMR at more limited ranges but it doesn't for me and neither does the op's choice need to be so limited if he asks and states his reasons! Now back to those enegy levels why can you shoot rabbits with a 240ft lb hmr when you cant with a 650-700 ft lb hornet? It surely only range dependant, shot placement being equal . I still think its a two gun thing for him though reloading is easy you might find that out someday but you will perhaps need to listen up a bit first. My first FAC as an over 18 granted a .243" win for fox and deer by the way, i know its harder now but far from impossible. I might have had my own Hornet a few weeks but in that time i have put over 100 rounds through it in the fields and have shot with plenty of others using one over the years and have had the good scense to always listen to those more experianced users. then again i have been shooting a heck of a deal longer than some and have the benefit live on a large upland farm miles from anywere. you are of course welcome to your own opinion but exactly how is a .223 rem so superiour as a fox gun? oh sorry you can't answer that as you havent actually owned both calibres have you? Most foxes being taken below 200yds? Dead is dead you know you can't kill them double or tripple dead. A bit like saying the .243" is a better foxer than a .223" which it undoubtedly is if you need to shoot them at 300 yds and further but at appropriate ranges .223 ranges its just a bigger bang more powder and faster throat erosion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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