silpig5 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 after reading this thread i now know why so many people have left this good forum who gives a toss about graphs and post 300 yard shots ? target shooting is a seperate enterty we (most of us) are here for the sport and the stalk . yes i shoot rifles , and never at post 300 yd . why , coz it aint safe in a field ! thats why , too many things to go wrong.for me any way sorry , if you want to get ya kn#b out and keep bragging mine is longer than yours and such like , do the decent thing and do it on another forum , like jackonory or ***** r us . i know i might rattle the odd cage , but these threads are getting tedious and pathetic . adi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) after reading this thread i now know why so many people have left this good forum who gives a toss about graphs and post 300 yard shots ? target shooting is a seperate enterty we (most of us) are here for the sport and the stalk . yes i shoot rifles , and never at post 300 yd . why , coz it aint safe in a field ! thats why , too many things to go wrong.for me any way sorry , if you want to get ya kn#b out and keep bragging mine is longer than yours and such like , do the decent thing and do it on another forum , like jackonory or ***** r us . i know i might rattle the odd cage , but these threads are getting tedious and pathetic . adi Wasn't aware so many 'good' people had left! probably because the threads were boring and sterile... no one is forcing you to read this thread or indeed post to it, it is still tracking relevant (sort of) to the OP. I thought you said you had read the thread there have been a couple of references to target shooting but they were also relevant to the discussion in that... I will pay for the butts for the entire day for anyone to come to Bisley and put their money where their mouths are..... Up to now I have NO takers.... funny that! Edited July 12, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk52 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Vipa, with respect, shooting at long ranges at vermin is shooting cold bore, and it's not the same as shooting targets at Bisley. I know - I do both and enjoy both. Ballistic calculators, with the right inputs, are quite scarily accurate. Key - right inputs. You NEED the atmospherics, and you need accurate MV, and Coriolis, and and and. Out at Bisley, it is rare to see people whacking it in the V first up, and there's a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's not required - you get sighters, so you use them. Secondly, long range vermin = 500 or 600 yards, which in target circles is quite close still. At those ranges, precision is easier! As for the safety side, well I'm afraid there you're just talking BS - there are plenty of places out and about where you can shoot 500+ yards safely. If you can't do it with knowledge of every yard between you and the target, you don't shoot! Not rocket science. Really? I beg to differ, at a recent intercounties shoot at Bisley I would have said that 80% of the first shots were a V. You say that to produce an accurate shot you need all the wind data etc etc but where do you get that from when you are out in the field? How do you know about the wind at 800 yards? You do not have wind flags etc in every field you shoot do you? When I Target shoot I have wind charts and experience based on what the flags are doing, I already know what my elevation will be because I have shot at that range before. The firing points are set out at the correct distances. What is the accuracy of you rangefinder? Even if it is 1m in 1000m then you could still be 5m out at 500 and that could mean an injured animal. Not to mention the wind slightly gusting more or less just as you take the shot. I would also echo the earlier comments about proving yourself at Bisley, anytime you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 after reading this thread i now know why so many people have left this good forum who gives a toss about graphs and post 300 yard shots ? target shooting is a seperate enterty we (most of us) are here for the sport and the stalk . yes i shoot rifles , and never at post 300 yd . why , coz it aint safe in a field ! thats why , too many things to go wrong.for me any way sorry , if you want to get ya kn#b out and keep bragging mine is longer than yours and such like , do the decent thing and do it on another forum , like jackonory or ***** r us . i know i might rattle the odd cage , but these threads are getting tedious and pathetic . adi I have to say that though I've entered the discussion I'm far from one who partakes as I'm not good enough. I do however dispute the safety aspect as simply you can do it safely on my ground so why not elsewhere. I also find the opinion that you'll be leaving wounded fluffy wuffy bunnies about all over the place a little odd when you are using a centrefire and there are definite double standards going with anyone who uses a shotgun yet suggests long range bunnies are so likely to be wounded they wouldn't shoot at them. Its all about discussion and sadly the people that are so vocal against it are dragging the pan for any excuse, first it was wounding then it was safety gets very boring after a while. I've no idea how long they've been actually shooting but from what I'm hearing they are best off staying on the range as going out in the field sounds too terrifying for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk52 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Al4x, don't get me wrong, I accept that animals are wounded every day of the week. I have never raised the safety issue as because you say a shot can be just as dangerous at 20 yards as it can at 1000 yards. The question I asked is what do the people who shoot at these long ranges do if they wing one? The answer is obvious that they leave it to die. With regards to a shotgun yes probably more birds are wounded with one however the range is short and the bird can be dispatched as quickly as possible. Especially if the shooter is responsible enough to have a dog with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 the odds on wounding with a centrefire are minimal, you could potentially take a leg off I suppose but a hit anywhere on the body will kill it. Shotguns birds can be pricked and glide on or get lost in cover you don't recover every one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) I have to say that though I've entered the discussion I'm far from one who partakes as I'm not good enough. I do however dispute the safety aspect as simply you can do it safely on my ground so why not elsewhere. I also find the opinion that you'll be leaving wounded fluffy wuffy bunnies about all over the place a little odd when you are using a centrefire and there are definite double standards going with anyone who uses a shotgun yet suggests long range bunnies are so likely to be wounded they wouldn't shoot at them. Its all about discussion and sadly the people that are so vocal against it are dragging the pan for any excuse, first it was wounding then it was safety gets very boring after a while. I've no idea how long they've been actually shooting but from what I'm hearing they are best off staying on the range as going out in the field sounds too terrifying for them. It wasn't first or second anything Alex... There is a good chance of wounding at extreme ranges.. a .308 is down to 400 odd ft/lbs at 1k, a .243 200 odd, not much more than a .22lr at normal ranges. Not enough to blow up a wabbit or guarantee a 'any hit' kill but plenty enough to take a back leg off. It has probably also started tumblig quite badly at that point so further affecting the chances of a clean kill Why is it Alex, when ever you disagree with a post, rather than airing your view and joining in the discussion you find it necessary to be sarcastic and childish I really don't get it.. If you feel comfortable shooting live quarry at those sorts of distances then that is your prerogative to do it or to feel comfortable with it (although you have said you don't do it!) It is not illegal. MY VIEW is that it is dangerous to be shooting out to those sorts of ranges in th British countryside, and I have explained why I feel that, there is a greater chance of wounding purely because, at those ranges, you cannot guarantee a clean kill and I was always brought up to only shoot an animal if a clean kill was pretty much assured. The threads that have appeared on here showing Yanks shooting large game at 600yds plus have attracted page after page of villification and yet, it seems that we don't think a rabbit deserves the same respect!? still a living breathing mammal or is it a size issue? If it's small it doesn't matter? Why you feel the need to resort to petty name calling and sarcasm is completely beyond me Edited July 12, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk52 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Odds are minimal but not impossible, so what happens with the ones that don't get killed outright? Yes birds can get pricked and fly on, rabbits can get hit and still make their hole. But the true sportsman does everything he can to minimise that happening. Not taking long shots because most of the time he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Odds are minimal but not impossible, so what happens with the ones that don't get killed outright? Yes birds can get pricked and fly on, rabbits can get hit and still make their hole. But the true sportsman does everything he can to minimise that happening. Not taking long shots because most of the time he can. so no one partakes in high bird pheasant drives? or shoots at high pigeons on the edge of range? We won't agree Vipa that you can shoot safely on some ground so best to leave it there and 200ftlbs is enough for any rabbit round my way. We shoot them because they do economic damage and affect my mates pay packet rather than for any other reason, his wages are more important to him than worrying too much about rabbit welfare. I'm yet to injure one with a centrefire though so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) I'm yet to injure one with a centrefire though so who knows. Quite probably because, by your own admission, don't shoot them at extreme ranges. And, to my mind, shooting vermin at the kinds of 'bragging rights' ranges being bandied about here is pure and simple pot shooting, there is no agricultural protection about it. That is a smokescreen. Shooting rabbits or pigeon at those kinds of ranges with a centerfire is not cost effective, is not efficient and pulls a whole boat load of safety issues in with it. Should we really be so unconcerned about animal welfare granted, woodies, corvids, rabbits etc damage crops but do you really therefore feel they don't deserve any respect at all? Deer do plenty of damage, you would get hauled over the coals on here for such blatant disregard for their welfare. It is this I don't understand, why is one animal more important or deserving than another in your eyes? Edited July 12, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Shooting at the obscene ranges mentioned on here is to kill stuff and to satisfy egos . I sorry but no true field sports man would want to be involved in this long range practice . Draw your self some pictures of rabbits and take them down the range and you will be able to play with dials on you toys all day .leave the serious shooting to the sports men who know what they are doing . Had enough of this thread . Harnser . Edited July 12, 2011 by Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Im screwed then, im hopefully after some prairie dogs at the weekend? this is a proper busmans holiday sounds like you'll have a corking days sport. I trust we will be able to read a report somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Im screwed then, im hopefully after some prairie dogs at the weekend? Please will you post a full write up with pictures and describe all extreme shots taken as i fully appreciate skillful varmint/vermin control.The farrer the better and dont be put off by random ramblers either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 can I request some 200 plus HMR shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) can I request some 200 plus HMR shots I cant condone that kind of behaviour as there are so many things that could be inbetween the varmint and the rifle at that range.Better out to 1000+ yards as the trajectory is that great that big tall things,including 8 ft ramblers,will be able to walk about in safety. Edited July 12, 2011 by sako751sg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Shooting at the obscene ranges mentioned on here is to kill stuff and to satisfy egos . I sorry but no true field sports man would want to be involved in this long range practice . Draw your self some pictures of rabbits and take them down the range and you will be able to play with dials on you toys all day .leave the serious shooting to the sports men who know what they are doing . Had enough of this thread . Harnser . To only a certain degree do i agree with that sweeping judgement. Is the fact that i shoot Crows at the "Obscene ranges" you mention declassify me as a sportsman? I should like to meet the man who can stalk them with any effectiveness across open moorland. Even at a few hundred yards one bad move and they are off! Likewise would i pass up a shot at a Fox that i know i am capable of across open ground? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Shooting at the obscene ranges mentioned on here is to kill stuff and to satisfy egos . I sorry but no true field sports man would want to be involved in this long range practice . Draw your self some pictures of rabbits and take them down the range and you will be able to play with dials on you toys all day .leave the serious shooting to the sports men who know what they are doing . Had enough of this thread . Harnser . I wasnt going to get involved in this as you cant educate pork,everyone has there opinion thats fair enough but dont go telling people there wrong for what there doing. my best shots were 497 yards Sika 490 yard Roe and 2 Reds at 360 and 380 all in the same weekend,all shots calculated and excuuted perfectly which led to 1 shot clean kills,I ve hit rabbits at 540 yards in fact 2 rabbits with 2 shots side my side cold bore,a fluke far from it. yes I have also missed vermin not deer,but you can also miss at 100 yards,seem it many many times. Now Mr Harnser I have been reading your one sided posts for a few days days now and feel it is time to comment,with respect I see your an old boy of 67 years,again with respect you are not going to learn new tricks at your age,you will be one of the 100 yard 4 inch group gents,this is fine if your are happy to do that,but dont knock the guys who spend the time on proper built rifles perfect reloading of there ammo and use every possable bit of equipment to get there long range shots it has nohting to do with being a Sportsman taking a long range shot,you do what makes you happy,it seems the people who are running the long range guys down havnt got a clue about what is needed to take such a shot,a very negative attitude. I enjoy stalking as you call it but I also enjoy a good calculated long shot,I suspose that makes me a "hunter" anyway Iam sick of hearing "this is wrong" and "you shouldnt be doing that" WHY who are we to say who is right and who is wrong is the dumpy wrong who mises a deer at 100 yards or blows a chunk form it and it runs off,it happens,or is the long range shooter wrong lining up dialing in waiting for the wind to be right to place the bullet into a deer 300/400/500 yards away or what about the rabbit shooter taking pot shots at rabbit out of range of there rimfire and they crawl away to die,again it happens a lot or is the long range man wrong again calculating the rabbit sat 600 yards away using a caliber with plenty of energy to dump into its body so it will die no matter where its hit look mate open your eyes and come into the real world of the modern firearm and what its capable of,even if your not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I want the name and address of that mate of yours cos he's in BIG TROUBLE! I was out fishing just off Dungeness that other day and my boat was hit by a round from an HMR! I think you need to teach him a bit about wind deviation! I wouldn't have minded but I was realing in a 75 pound cod at the time using my number 4 (double taper, floating) fly line and a size 14 dry fly, the shock nearly made me loose it but I managed to land it after playing it for about 2 minutes and the wife made a lovely fish finger out of it for my tea! But I'm not happy about the 6 inch hole in my boat! (Those HMR rounds do expand well, don't they! sorry FB i thought you said wind and deviation which i guessed is a game you paly round your way with the fat lasses after a night on the ale and curry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I wasnt going to get involved in this as you cant educate pork,everyone has there opinion thats fair enough but dont go telling people there wrong for what there doing. my best shots were 497 yards Sika 490 yard Roe and 2 Reds at 360 and 380 all in the same weekend,all shots calculated and excuuted perfectly which led to 1 shot clean kills,I ve hit rabbits at 540 yards in fact 2 rabbits with 2 shots side my side cold bore,a fluke far from it. yes I have also missed vermin not deer,but you can also miss at 100 yards,seem it many many times. Now Mr Harnser I have been reading your one sided posts for a few days days now and feel it is time to comment,with respect I see your an old boy of 67 years,again with respect you are not going to learn new tricks at your age,you will be one of the 100 yard 4 inch group gents,this is fine if your are happy to do that,but dont knock the guys who spend the time on proper built rifles perfect reloading of there ammo and use every possable bit of equipment to get there long range shots it has nohting to do with being a Sportsman taking a long range shot,you do what makes you happy,it seems the people who are running the long range guys down havnt got a clue about what is needed to take such a shot,a very negative attitude. I enjoy stalking as you call it but I also enjoy a good calculated long shot,I suspose that makes me a "hunter" anyway Iam sick of hearing "this is wrong" and "you shouldnt be doing that" WHY who are we to say who is right and who is wrong is the dumpy wrong who mises a deer at 100 yards or blows a chunk form it and it runs off,it happens,or is the long range shooter wrong lining up dialing in waiting for the wind to be right to place the bullet into a deer 300/400/500 yards away or what about the rabbit shooter taking pot shots at rabbit out of range of there rimfire and they crawl away to die,again it happens a lot or is the long range man wrong again calculating the rabbit sat 600 yards away using a caliber with plenty of energy to dump into its body so it will die no matter where its hit look mate open your eyes and come into the real world of the modern firearm and what its capable of,even if your not Ackley... you are more than welcome to be the first to accept my offer of a day at Bisley ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Ackley... you are more than welcome to be the first to accept my offer of a day at Bisley ? I dont need to travel 3.5 hours and spend £100 in fuel when I have all the land Ineed on my doorstep,you are welcome to come down anytime for free,in fact I will be out this coming Saturday for a look around,weather permitting that is to be fair you say your a hot shot BR shooter,if this is the case you should know better Edited July 12, 2011 by Ackley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) I dont need to travel 3.5 hours and spend £100 in fuel when I have all the land Ineed on my doorstep,you are welcome to come down anytime for free,in fact I will be out this coming Saturday for a look around,weather permitting that is to be fair you say your a hot shot BR shooter,if this is the case you should know better Never said I shoot BR and certainly never said I was a hot shot Have to say, I'm really dissapointed in the take up of my offer... I was looking forward to a day out with the boys and the guns Edited July 12, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I only have a passing interest in threads like this , no experience with bullet rifles, only rimmie and loads of airguns including FAC. If I learnt one thing with these is that wind, not to mention reality gets in the way of consistently pulling off shots that the rifle/projectile are capable of. Of course it is possible presumably to buy the finest equipment and hand load so as to extract the last drop of inherent accuracy from your combo, but unless you then sit down and shoot in a covered mile long bunker you`re still at the mercy of nature. Waiting for the right wind drop , don`t think so, wind here doesn`t mean wind there. I don`t doubt those who say inputting data off chairgun or dialling in can be frighteningly effective but even if it were possible to shoot at over 500 yards (as easily as it is at 200), you`d have to ask why? You have to admit you`re allowing your egotistical instincts cloud your better judgement of seeing animals as your personal target practice fodder. What`s the point? OK so you can blow up a centred rabbit, or one that gets clipped will die, you hope, I don`t think so, nowhere near always. Sure it`s just as bad being useless at 100 yards but that`s a whole separate argument anyway. I just don`t think there are enough instances where such shots are routinely needed, desired maybe, but that takes us back to target practice mentality with live animals. Deer at 400 yards maybe, impressive if you have the know how, but 550 yard crow or rabbit, come on, get a bit closer if you really want them dead. I`m always careful in criticising, lest it turns out I know not the full facts, but once or twice when I`ve watched Youtube clips of long range varmint critters being blown to bits followed with howls of laughter and approval, it has felt very uneasy. Difficult in fact, not feeling as though non shooters would simply see us all as countryside hooligans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Never said I shoot BR and certainly never said I was a hot shot Have to say, I'm really dissapointed in the take up of my offer... I was looking forward to a day out with the boys and the guns Oh so sorry post number 103 you seemed to be blowing your own trumpet,no need to be disapointed mate pop down to Derbyshire (not as far as Bisley) Saturday Iam sure I can give you a good time with "the boys and guns" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ackley, I hoped you were not going to get involved in this as like you say' you can't educate pork'. Long range shots at deer maybe explainable in the Scottish Highlands to take out an injured or sick red, but if you boasted those range deer shots round my way you would have your rifle made to fit snuggly somewhere at much closer range to your person. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Ackley, I hoped you were not going to get involved in this as like you say' you can't educate pork'. Long range shots at deer maybe explainable in the Scottish Highlands to take out an injured or sick red, but if you boasted those range deer shots round my way you would have your rifle made to fit snuggly somewhere at much closer range to your person. :blink: and this is my point to a tee , some can on a range and some cant because of comon sense . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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