welsh1 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Maybe though our doctors health records should state that we are fac /sgc holders. Then at least if you went to the quacks cos you are cutting the grass wearing flippers and a thong at 3am they could make the local feo aware . It would then be down to them to re interview you and make a descision whether you should keep your guns. Are you stark raving mad, It should be a mankini and a snorkel,and on rainy mornings armbands are essential, Now excuse me the mice need milking :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Trouble is that if you know your sgc or fac us going to be removed because you're a bit down then some people will be less likely to seek help and let it fester until it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz2202 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Trouble is that if you know your sgc or fac us going to be removed because you're a bit down then some people will be less likely to seek help and let it fester until it's too late. Fair point , gonna be good reasons from both sides for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Are you stark raving mad, It should be a mankini and a snorkel,and on rainy mornings armbands are essential, Now excuse me the mice need milking :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Trouble is that if you know your sgc or fac us going to be removed because you're a bit down then some people will be less likely to seek help and let it fester until it's too late. we have a guy who dose a bit of stalking on hear he is the bosses freind and a docter, and i mentiond this to him (more asked realy) when me and my ex became exes i had a hard time of it and even he said i would just get thrue it. if you se a doc they will have to inform the police if they find out you are a holder of guns. so it makes me wonder how many people are not getting help they could do with for every day problems just like mine or the loss of girlfreind/job/**** job ect ect. i know for one i would never go for help unless i realy felt i had to, for fear of loseing my guns (witch would lead to the end of my career!) i have also seen how people can just "go" ive known birdy for a good few years ive shot with him a few times, and ile tell you this like i tell every one was just like evry other guy ive ever shot with!! safe gun handleing respect for quarry and a good shot. so befor you all start thinking he was a nut nut for a long time just ticking away he wasnt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I know of at least one person who didnt go to the docs for years for fear of loosing HGV licence (= job/income etc) every 5 years you have to have a medical and it wasnt until next medical was almost due they went (someone told them its better to go see the doc than fail the medical!) so is getting treatment and is much better. I also know someone who tried suicide (and not in the take 20 pain killers and a drink half a bottle of scotch way), and almost managed it! Now a lot better thankfully. People behaviour is often not rational (at the time they most need to rational) and usually they never get to give their side of the story (Bird, Hamilton, Ryan et al) all took there reasons with them. So the "experts" can only speculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 The whole thing is pointless. You cannot legislate for instant insanity. You cannot verify a person's mental health by asking a doctor - as stated many of us never go! I agree many people have no idea, I agree this needs looking at, but it is not a response to the tragedies. The question posed is simple - how do we stop this recurring? The answer: YOU CAN'T! The public might want this solved, but sometimes the role of government is to protect the status quo, because the status quo is logical and reasonable when viewed without tabloid BS. Also, most non shooters I know accept the status quo in regard to Bird, so there is no major hurdle over which to leap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I cant help but think there must be some kind of 'screening' which would potentially highlight risk, based on previous examples. Surely Psychology is up to the task of throwing some kind of net for these types of people to get caught in? I also think once something like this happens, that speed of response to such incidents is a key issue. What ever happened to Emergency Planning? If it really is a switch that is thrown in one moment, then its near impossible to screen that behaviour I would think - but take Norway as an example - he should have been filtered out and incapacitated sooner. Cant suggest his was an instant loss of sanity. I have always thought Hamilton must have shown some signs - remember the female police officer who said he was unfit? The police chief forced to resign? Perhaps Bird was the kind of mentality that any more stress would cause to flip and just maybe he knew he was in danger of getting caught for tax evasion. How an event which is unrelated could trigger the murder of innocents is also of huge concern - anyone might flip but where in Gods heaven does that mean you kill people other than yourself? How could this have been forseen -not very easily I suspect, but we must keep looking. Why did any of the 4 just not simply commit suicide if their life was so unremittingly awful, or the future was 'unliveable'. That should be another question we try and answer. I have no real answers, I would sincerely hope though that for those who have all the details of these cases every single and possible avenue has been scoured for any type of answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 The common factor is single male. I suppose that if you are in a relationship / married / have kids then the probability is that you are more likely to be social, able to form relationships and have something to loose other than your own life. Who knows, but it's a good one for some idle speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 The common factor is single male. Given the fortunately small number of people that have done these things, it is, as you say, hard to read anything into this. Also, Hamilton and Ryan were fantasists or 'nut-nuts' as Mungler calls them, where are there is nothing to suggest that Bird was. The only common theme appears to be that there were concerns raised before the events about these people that weren't taken to the police, or if they were, they weren't appropriately followed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) mung i can se your point, almost every keeper and stalker i know is single and not social at all, and most have a soft spot for guns Edited July 27, 2011 by highseas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 going back to an earlier reply, my medical records are marked that I have sgc. Don't know if the docs did this off their own backs following a police request for my records last year. Saw it when I was having blood taken. The nurse said it was Law when I queried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Bird did have children and was married at one time? He was a grandfather also. So not quite so clear cut as single male (after all all males are single at some time in life) the answer for the anti's is easy "Ban everything" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.