tell me about airgun ballistics

[ilovemyheckler]

what are the differences between a .22 and .177, in particular an AirArms S410?

 

1. Which has the most killing power or is this dependant on the guns' power?

2. When zeroing is there any difference between the .177 ans .22?

3. What is the range of a .177 and .22?

4. Am i right in thinking that a .22 zeroed at say 35m needs to be compensated when shooting at something say 15m and/or 25m? Is this the same for a .177?

5. Any other differences I should know about/

 

 

thanks

[Gnome of the Woods]

On my phone so a detailed answer is difficult.

Basically .177 has a flatter trajectory than .22 in sub 12ft/lb.

Both as accurate as each other but .22 requires better range finding abilities.

effective hunting ranges depend on skill level and conditions, for .177 45yds is about the Max and 40yds for. 22

Alot of people, even die hard hunters have taken to .177 because of the flatter trajectory which is more forgiving if a shot is mis ranged.

 

Pop over to the airarmsownersclub for lots of views of owners of both calibers.

 

Paul

[Fat toad]

what are the differences between a .22 and .177, in particular an AirArms S410?

 

1. Which has the most killing power or is this dependant on the guns' power?

2. When zeroing is there any difference between the .177 ans .22?

3. What is the range of a .177 and .22?

4. Am i right in thinking that a .22 zeroed at say 35m needs to be compensated when shooting at something say 15m and/or 25m? Is this the same for a .177?

5. Any other differences I should know about/

 

 

thanks

[Fat toad]

Hi theirs a app out called chairgun for phones and pc users it got a lot of these type questions answered in it covers alot for all types of pellets and caliba over all ranges and it's free Frank

[Dekers]

what are the differences between a .22 and .177, in particular an AirArms S410?

 

1. Which has the most killing power or is this dependant on the guns' power? The .22 carries its energy better (just)!

 

2. When zeroing is there any difference between the .177 ans .22? NO! zero either at whatever distance you like and they are zeroed!

 

3. What is the range of a .177 and .22? Range is irrelevant, the question you need the answer to is EFFECTIVE range, that will be very similar for both!

 

4. Am i right in thinking that a .22 zeroed at say 35m needs to be compensated when shooting at something say 15m and/or 25m? Is this the same for a .177? YES! they will both need some level of compensation at all distances except First Zero and Zero, but the .177 will be flatter shooting!

 

5. Any other differences I should know about/ ....That argument rages on

 

 

Responses based on 12ft lb guns, but if they are equally FAC the answers remain constant!

 

To liven up the debate, .22 for Hunting, .177 for target!

 

thanks

 

Edited August 29, 2011 by Dekers

[FalconFN]

what are the differences between a .22 and .177, in particular an AirArms S410?

 

1. Which has the most killing power or is this dependant on the guns' power?

2. When zeroing is there any difference between the .177 ans .22?

3. What is the range of a .177 and .22?

4. Am i right in thinking that a .22 zeroed at say 35m needs to be compensated when shooting at something say 15m and/or 25m? Is this the same for a .177?

5. Any other differences I should know about/

 

 

thanks

1: Not much difference between them as the will both carry the same energy, but many people say .22 has a slightly harder hitting than .177 which can over penetrate.

2: As said, .177 has a flatter trajectory. I zero my .177 at 35 yards and the pellets point of impact is within 1/2" of the crosshairs from 10 to 40 yards. .22 however will be nearer 1" and over a shorter range.

3: .177 is comfortably upto 45 yards. .22 is nearer 35 yards (although if you know your pellet drop you can compensate accordingly)

4: Check out the free program called Chairgun, simple to use and can show you what you need to know.

5: .177 pellets travel faster and are cheaper to buy.

 

Hope this helps

[kent]

5yds trajectory advantage if you set a maximum hunting range of 35yds there is no advantage as regards mis ranging, the .22 does kill better. .22 is the top choice once you go fac

[-Mongrel-]

...there is no advantage as regards mis-ranging... Can't agree with that statement. It's a known fact that the flatter trajectory of the .177 means it's less likely to be a problem if you've mis-ranged, you're still much more likely to make a killing shot.

 

 

 

...the .22 does kill better...Maybe it does maybe it doesn't, I've shot rabbit from 8 yds out to beyond 45 and if you hit them accurately they rarely get up again, I have a had through and out shots on close targets, but they still kill. I accept that the .22 has more clout but I feel it's outweighed by the ranging difficulties and that the extra clout isn't really needed.

[ilovemyheckler]

thanks everyone, some really helpful points

I pick up my new AirArms .177 S410 carbine ultralight tomorrow morning after selling my .22

[kent]

Let me qualify again at UP TO 35yds there is no advantage in trajectory. Twice the weight and a bigger hole definatly kills better, thats just a fact.

45 yds is at least ten yards too far for most competant shots to garantee first shot kills without ranging and in any sort of wind. Get 45 yds wrong and its 48 and you are out of the kill zone on most quarry even with .177

[-Mongrel-]

Let me qualify again at UP TO 35yds there is no advantage in trajectory. Twice the weight and a bigger hole definatly kills better, thats just a fact.

45 yds is at least ten yards too far for most competant shots to garantee first shot kills without ranging and in any sort of wind. Get 45 yds wrong and its 48 and you are out of the kill zone on most quarry even with .177

 

 

But even at 35 yards you have a more loopy trajectory with a .22, and at the distances up to 35 yds you still have more pronounced hold under (assuming a 35 yard zero) than the flatter .177. I wouldn't disagree that a .22 in the right place has more killing power, but maybe more than is actually needed? Making a bigger hole won't make it any more dead.

 

As for 45 yards being ten yards too far for most competent shots...I know of six other airgun hunters who consistently shoot out to 45 yards and consistently, cleanly kill. I've assumed this to be the norm for competent shots as well as the ability to be able to range fairly accurately.

 

Surely you should be grouping well and on target at this sort of range before even considering taking on live quarry? My .177 shoots only 1/2" lower at 45 yards than it does at 35, that's still likely to be in the kill zone is it not and getting 45 to be 48 is even less of an issue surely? Clean kills has to be the benchmark and I know the lads are very keen to make sure this happens, personally I've had only one that needed a second shot all year.

[kent]

But even at 35 yards you have a more loopy trajectory with a .22, and at the distances up to 35 yds you still have more pronounced hold under (assuming a 35 yard zero) than the flatter .177. I wouldn't disagree that a .22 in the right place has more killing power, but maybe more than is actually needed? Making a bigger hole won't make it any more dead.

 

As for 45 yards being ten yards too far for most competent shots...I know of six other airgun hunters who consistently shoot out to 45 yards and consistently, cleanly kill. I've assumed this to be the norm for competent shots as well as the ability to be able to range fairly accurately.

 

Surely you should be grouping well and on target at this sort of range before even considering taking on live quarry? My .177 shoots only 1/2" lower at 45 yards than it does at 35, that's still likely to be in the kill zone is it not and getting 45 to be 48 is even less of an issue surely? Clean kills has to be the benchmark and I know the lads are very keen to make sure this happens, personally I've had only one that needed a second shot all year.

 

I am not gonna go over and over this, these are facts as far as i personally see it as an ex-competitive shot with over thirty years in on air rifles . A .22 running an average weight pellet with a common bore to scope height at a high but fully legal velocity should be bearly showing its drop at 35 yds if zeroed at between 28-30 yds. The big issue is not drop or the .177 being flatter at 45 yds its calling the wind with no sighter and hitting targets that are considerably smaller than 40mm metal kill zones and like i say allowing a tollerance for misranging. In the real world you do not get to ping your quarry with a lazer or get settled into a perfect seated or rested shooting possision, groups are meaningless as you only get one shot and you are never sure just how far it is (unlike targets on a familular plinking range). If you believe you or others are capable of shooting humanely at more distant ranges that is your perogative but i think you might be better off competing at HFT than testing that abilty on live quarry.

[FalconFN]

Let me qualify again at UP TO 35yds there is no advantage in trajectory. Twice the weight and a bigger hole definatly kills better, thats just a fact.

45 yds is at least ten yards too far for most competant shots to garantee first shot kills without ranging and in any sort of wind. Get 45 yds wrong and its 48 and you are out of the kill zone on most quarry even with .177

At any range over 10 yards there is an advantage in .177 because a .22 pellet will rise higher above your crosshairs and then dip below much more rapidly.

 

Also, "twice the weight and a bigger hole" yes but a .22 pellet is traveling slower than a .177 -ie they will have the same energy.

[Dekers]

At any range over 10 yards there is an advantage in .177 because a .22 pellet will rise higher above your crosshairs and then dip below much more rapidly.

 

Also, "twice the weight and a bigger hole" yes but a .22 pellet is traveling slower than a .177 -ie they will have the same energy.

 

 

Lets not get too wound up with fractions, but the only time they have the same energy is the instant they leave the barrel (assuming all is equal at that point), the .22 carries its energy better, the .177 loses it quicker. Therefore, at terminal distance the .22 will have MORE energy, not a lot, but it will have more!

[kent]

At any range over 10 yards there is an advantage in .177 because a .22 pellet will rise higher above your crosshairs and then dip below much more rapidly.

 

Also, "twice the weight and a bigger hole" yes but a .22 pellet is traveling slower than a .177 -ie they will have the same energy.

 

Please nothing rises, the instant anything leaves the muzzle it starts to drop, the line of sight intersects twice as its angled downwards perfectly staight. By adjustments to the way and height the scope is mounted its perfectly possible to get a .22 sub 12 ft lb to apear to shoot flat (it isn't but appears that way and can be treated as such) from 8-30yds with only very slight drop at 35 evident. What your reffering to is the mid point peak trajectory which happens when the line of sight passes though this "falling trajectory curve"

 

You seem to have failed to mention about retained rather than muzzle energy, terminal balistics and a projectiles ability to depart energy is another subject again and .22 is way superiour in both. I repeate .177 offers five yards trajectory advantage as you can do the above up to 40yds

 

 

Now then appart from target shooting HFT and FT were ranges are extended beyond that which they should be in the hunting field and kill zones are about twice as big, what are the advantage of .177 pellets? To a manufacturer its less Raw material cost of an expensive medium that changes in cost almost monthly both up and down Think of that one a while

[secretagentmole]

I have shot rabbits at 50m with a .22 and 73 metres with a .177, not difficult, just use the right scope, a laser rangefinder and chair gun, then practise like hell! Nothing is more satisfying than seeing that rabbit at 70 metres roll over when it gets a pellet behind the eye! You just have to know your gun, your ammo, your scope, also if the conditions are windy, forget it, but on a calm still day a 210 foot distance rabbit is not a problem, all I would ask is that you practise aiming and firing at those distances, see what can be done!

[Dekers]

I have shot rabbits at 50m with a .22 and 73 metres with a .177, not difficult, just use the right scope, a laser rangefinder and chair gun, then practise like hell! Nothing is more satisfying than seeing that rabbit at 70 metres roll over when it gets a pellet behind the eye! You just have to know your gun, your ammo, your scope, also if the conditions are windy, forget it, but on a calm still day a 210 foot distance rabbit is not a problem, all I would ask is that you practise aiming and firing at those distances, see what can be done!

 

 

Well, that should stretch this thread out a bit longer..............

[ilovemyheckler]

Forgive my ignorance but what are;

 

1. Laser rangefinder

2. Chairgun

 

 

Thanks

[kent]

Forgive my ignorance but what are;

 

1. Laser rangefinder

2. Chairgun

 

 

Thanks

 

Lazer rangefinder= device that encourages newbies to shoot beyond thier ability

 

Chairgun= free to download balistic program, also see above

[kent]

I have shot rabbits at 50m with a .22 and 73 metres with a .177, not difficult, just use the right scope, a laser rangefinder and chair gun, then practise like hell! Nothing is more satisfying than seeing that rabbit at 70 metres roll over when it gets a pellet behind the eye! You just have to know your gun, your ammo, your scope, also if the conditions are windy, forget it, but on a calm still day a 210 foot distance rabbit is not a problem, all I would ask is that you practise aiming and firing at those distances, see what can be done!

 

Wrong section mate try jokes

[-Mongrel-]

If you believe you or others are capable of shooting humanely at more distant ranges that is your perogative but i think you might be better off competing at HFT than testing that abilty on live quarry.

 

That would be fair comment if I was wounding quarry with any regularity, I don't call one wounding (which was despatched seconds later with a follow up) out of around 200 rabbits this year regular. I do also regularly compete in HFT as do several of my colleagues, it's how we met.

[Good shot?]

what are the differences between a .22 and .177, in particular an AirArms S410?

 

1. Which has the most killing power or is this dependant on the guns' power?

2. When zeroing is there any difference between the .177 ans .22?

3. What is the range of a .177 and .22?

4. Am i right in thinking that a .22 zeroed at say 35m needs to be compensated when shooting at something say 15m and/or 25m? Is this the same for a .177?

5. Any other differences I should know about/

 

 

 

Free download available if you google 'Chairgun' and its from from Hawke optics site.This will tell you a lot of what you ask and will give you a better understanding of trajectory etc.

And a laser range finder takes the guess work out of range finding at least until you can gauge distance without it.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Good shot?

[FalconFN]

Please nothing rises, the instant anything leaves the muzzle it starts to drop, the line of sight intersects twice as its angled downwards perfectly staight. By adjustments to the way and height the scope is mounted its perfectly possible to get a .22 sub 12 ft lb to apear to shoot flat (it isn't but appears that way and can be treated as such) from 8-30yds with only very slight drop at 35 evident. What your reffering to is the mid point peak trajectory which happens when the line of sight passes though this "falling trajectory curve"

 

You seem to have failed to mention about retained rather than muzzle energy, terminal balistics and a projectiles ability to depart energy is another subject again and .22 is way superiour in both. I repeate .177 offers five yards trajectory advantage as you can do the above up to 40yds

 

 

Now then appart from target shooting HFT and FT were ranges are extended beyond that which they should be in the hunting field and kill zones are about twice as big, what are the advantage of .177 pellets? To a manufacturer its less Raw material cost of an expensive medium that changes in cost almost monthly both up and down Think of that one a while

I shouldn't be getting into this really, but ALL pellets are rising when they leave the barrel (assuming you are shooting horizontally at a target at a moderate distance). As you rightly say, pellets drop due to gravity, which is why they need to be rising as they exit the barrel, if they didn't they would never reach your intended target (unless you only shoot things below you!). My point is that .22 pellets (due to their heavier weight and slower trajectory) will have a shorter parabola and therefore RISE above your zero point more than a .177 and drop past it again a shorter distance. This is not contoversial, it's fact.

 

As to energy difference, well the ranges that it would make any difference between life and death of a rabbit is much further than anyone should be shooting.

 

And I don't understand your last point, .177 are £8 for 500 .22 are £11.

 

Any hoo, it doesn't matter what you use as long as you use it well.

 

 

I like .22 a great deal but I just prefere the flatter trajectory and faster travel of the .177 pellet.

[Dicky]

Let me qualify again at UP TO 35yds there is no advantage in trajectory. Twice the weight and a bigger hole definatly kills better, thats just a fact.

45 yds is at least ten yards too far for most competant shots to garantee first shot kills without ranging and in any sort of wind. Get 45 yds wrong and its 48 and you are out of the kill zone on most quarry even with .177

 

Hmm, well, my tables say this if I zero at 8 yards:

 

On a .177 8.44 grain pellet with a BC of 0.022 there is half an inch drop between 45 and 48 yards. At 33 to 38 yards the drop is just under half an inch too.

The flat..ish range is between 15 and 33 yards which means a rise of .55 inch at 15 yards, a peak of .8 at 23 yards and down again to .46 at 33 yards but that is still a variance of a quarter inch.

 

Quarter of an inch on a pigeon headshot plus a little bit of trigger pull and/or wind makes for an easy miss, even if it is at 30 yards. So I think, ranging is crucial whatever the range, whatever the calibre.

 

Also, with that BC in mind, I have to allow for a pellet drop of 2 inches from zero at 50 yards. That means the pellet dropped an inch in its last 5 yards which is lot of energy loss. I'd estimate that the pellet had lost a third of its energy between 45 and 50 yards.

 

And, if you go for a BC of say 0.014 then that last 2 inches becomes 3, so I think pellet choice is important too.

 

Dicky

[Dicky]

I have shot rabbits at 50m with a .22 and 73 metres with a .177, not difficult, just use the right scope, a laser rangefinder and chair gun, then practise like hell! Nothing is more satisfying than seeing that rabbit at 70 metres roll over when it gets a pellet behind the eye! You just have to know your gun, your ammo, your scope, also if the conditions are windy, forget it, but on a calm still day a 210 foot distance rabbit is not a problem, all I would ask is that you practise aiming and firing at those distances, see what can be done!

 

What is the energy loss of your pellet at 70 yards?