Dale farm documentory

[Muddy Funker]

Using a tazer is,in terms of threat level and pre-planning, the last line before shooting someone and will have caused a shed load of paper shuffling after the event to justify it. It makes me puke that someone can sit in the safety of their home and whinge about over the top tactics - try having a 6' scaffold pole rammed over your head or a plank of wood - beleive me the Nato helmets the police are issued with are great at stopping tennis balls in riot training but not much good against real world weapons. That officer was completely justified, in my opinion and that is all it is, in tazering the soapy. All you see on tv is a few seconds, we have no idea about what threats etc occured prior to the trigger being pulled. It ended without any long or even medium term injury to either the soapy or the officer(s) so a job well done.

 

 

I agree with most of what you're saying.

 

Tazer is actually lower down on the list of officer responses to a threat than a strike, be it with asp or body.

 

The reason for this is the quick recovery time after tasering plus the small physical injury it causes.

 

A tazer can't break bones or kill someone, an asp strike, kick or punch potentially can.

[SilentKill]

I agree with most of what you're saying.

 

Tazer is actually lower down on the list of officer responses to a threat than a strike, be it with asp or body.

 

The reason for this is the quick recovery time after tasering plus the small physical injury it causes.

 

A tazer can't break bones or kill someone, an asp strike, kick or punch potentially can.

 

Agreed only ever pull your ASP if you intend to use it for protection of yourself or others! And if it is used it won't be used lightly!

 

Have to ask who was worse though the Travellers or Activists, i'd say activists!

[death from below]

Just watched that bit again....maybe should have made myself a bit more clearer...

 

The clip in question, (the one I'm on about) the Psychotic one shouting through the fence, Three camera men, & ONE WOMEN with a piece of paper in front of him... ...now tell me were the 6' scaffold pole is, & the plank of wood..

 

 

 

I don't work for Essex Police but I know for a fact they will use the national guidance for police use of firearms and tazers are included in that lengthy piece of literature - to have cause to not only point but actively threaten the use of a prohibited weapon calls for a high amount of personal belief/fear that unlawful violence is likley and that is the best means of dealing with the threat. For the Essex copper to be armed with a Tazer, he will have been trained and in most circumstances that will be for an officer who has a reasonable amount of service/experience (not a wet nosed Probationer). Along with that experience he/she will no doubt know that, with the eyes of the world right in front of him (ie the press), to tazer someone without a large amount of back up( ie evidence of threatened violence etc) he would be achieving nothing more than getting himself at least sacked (bye bye career, house, family, lifestyle etc etc) and possibly sent down. Do you honestly think he is going to go beserk and tazer someone right in front of the shed loads of press for waving a piece of paper at him - I doubt it very much. The shield serials that day were heavily supervised (unlike the G20 scenario)and if the officer in question had lost it to that extent he would have been withdrawn before it got to that stage. If someone is stupid enough to stand in a group of violent rioters who were attacking the police after umpteen requests/demands to move then the consequences are there to be seen.

[SilentKill]

I don't work for Essex Police but I know for a fact they will use the national guidance for police use of firearms and tazers are included in that lengthy piece of literature - to have cause to not only point but actively threaten the use of a prohibited weapon calls for a high amount of personal belief/fear that unlawful violence is likley and that is the best means of dealing with the threat. For the Essex copper to be armed with a Tazer, he will have been trained and in most circumstances that will be for an officer who has a reasonable amount of service/experience (not a wet nosed Probationer). Along with that experience he/she will no doubt know that, with the eyes of the world right in front of him (ie the press), to tazer someone without a large amount of back up( ie evidence of threatened violence etc) he would be achieving nothing more than getting himself at least sacked (bye bye career, house, family, lifestyle etc etc) and possibly sent down. Do you honestly think he is going to go beserk and tazer someone right in front of the shed loads of press for waving a piece of paper at him - I doubt it very much. The shield serials that day were heavily supervised (unlike the G20 scenario)and if the officer in question had lost it to that extent he would have been withdrawn before it got to that stage. If someone is stupid enough to stand in a group of violent rioters who were attacking the police after umpteen requests/demands to move then the consequences are there to be seen.

 

AGREED, I'm sure the chief constable was well aware of the implications of using Tazer and that would have been passed on down the ranks. And again i would assume they only used the Tazer with Firearms officer rather than just an area car driver.

[Bazooka Joe]

The clip of the woman tacking notes? What we can`t see is what the police are being threatened with outside the camera view

 

That's the one, if you look again the camera pans round, & the only people near the police are the 3 camera men, & the women with the piece of paper......

 

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but unless them are Death Ray Camera's, & the Semtex that the women has in her hand is heavy disguised as a piece of paper......What threat are these 4 to the police...?

[Bazooka Joe]

I don't work for Essex Police but I know for a fact they will use the national guidance for police use of firearms and tazers are included in that lengthy piece of literature - to have cause to not only point but actively threaten the use of a prohibited weapon calls for a high amount of personal belief/fear that unlawful violence is likley and that is the best means of dealing with the threat. For the Essex copper to be armed with a Tazer, he will have been trained and in most circumstances that will be for an officer who has a reasonable amount of service/experience (not a wet nosed Probationer). Along with that experience he/she will no doubt know that, with the eyes of the world right in front of him (ie the press), to tazer someone without a large amount of back up( ie evidence of threatened violence etc) he would be achieving nothing more than getting himself at least sacked (bye bye career, house, family, lifestyle etc etc) and possibly sent down. Do you honestly think he is going to go beserk and tazer someone right in front of the shed loads of press for waving a piece of paper at him - I doubt it very much. The shield serials that day were heavily supervised (unlike the G20 scenario)and if the officer in question had lost it to that extent he would have been withdrawn before it got to that stage. If someone is stupid enough to stand in a group of violent rioters who were attacking the police after umpteen requests/demands to move then the consequences are there to be seen.

 

 

You need to read post 21

 

Now....where are the scaffold poles, & planks of wood..?

[truckboy1]

I have to say that i back the police 100% on this they needed to act aggesssive and take control of the situation It wasnt that long ago they lost control of the yobs that caused to widescale rioting accross the nation, and as BJ has pointed out the 4 people in front of the camera may not be a threat however all they need to do is back off as the officer has asked and their will be no need to use the tazor

 

Its all about respect for the people you uphold the law of the land

[death from below]

Well, another to add to the unemployed list then as the officer is obviously acting unlawfully and is completely out of order. I did not have the benefit of being there as some must have done to be so well informed so I can only guess at what has happened.

[Bazooka Joe]

I did not have the benefit of being there as some must have done to be so well informed

 

 

For the record DFB, neither was I there,

 

The clue is in the OP's title of the thread,

 

PS; It was on the telly

[SilentKill]

For the record DFB, neither was I there,

 

The clue is in the OP's title of the thread,

 

PS; It was on the telly

 

It could have been edited either way, i'm sure the police have enough footage of their own to argue the case.... as a matter of course at all riot's and events they have their own cameras and use Oscar99!

[cockercas]

The proper travellers are ok the ones that are catholic and do things right. Its the ones that ride around conning people and nicking stuff that get the rest the bad name. My granddad was moving to Essex from Yorkshire had a trailer full of household stuff. On the way down the trailer got a puncture and the only place he could stop was a traveller site. He knocked on the caravan door and asked if he could leave the trailer on their site. He come back in the morning to find the tyre fixed and the trailer covered up because it rained in the night. He took them some whiskey,flowers and chocolate to say thanks but they didn't want it. Also have family friends that are travellers. Well not anymore they live in a huge multi million pound house. And he made all his money from taking over the local tip.

[Bazooka Joe]

It could have been edited either way, i'm sure the police have enough footage of their own to argue the case

 

 

Without a doubt SK...I'm not against the use of Tasors, in the right circumstances,

 

but I fail to see how 3 camera men, & 1 women were a threat to the Riot Police.

 

IE; that's why I think this part of the Documentary was OTT by the Police.

[SilentKill]

Without a doubt SK...I'm not against the use of Tasors, in the right circumstances,

 

but I fail to see how 3 camera men, & 1 women were a threat to the Riot Police.

 

IE; that's why I think this part of the Documentary was OTT by the Police.

 

I'm sure we could debate it all day, i guess the point where the police decided to go in first set the tone for the day.

 

The Riot gear would have been a matter of course, can you imagine if they had gone in with no PPE? it depends on the intel and planning. ive have had the pleasure of a dawn raid at a travellers camp as support for HMRC. it can turn from pleasantries to disorder in seconds... :unsure:

[Devilishdave]

Have to say that chap who pulled a shotgun could have applied his brain a bit more effectively though. Can understand why he was incredibly angry but by the looks of it letting them get to him has lost him his firearms and associated hobbies.

 

And liberty I hope

 

Dave

[JR1960]

I must admit when i saw it the first time the tazer incident seemed a little bit ott, mind you if they'd used the mortar option as previously suggested it wouldn't have been necessary! :yp:

 

Sorry, not a lot of sympathy from this quarter. Just so long as they don't turn up round here......

[UKPoacher]

I agree with most of what you're saying.

 

Tazer is actually lower down on the list of officer responses to a threat than a strike, be it with asp or body.

 

The reason for this is the quick recovery time after tasering plus the small physical injury it causes.

 

A tazer can't break bones or kill someone, an asp strike, kick or punch potentially can.

 

Yep. Tasers are less likely to leave permenant damage than a baton strike or a dog bite. In the Conflict Resolution Model a Taser would be used or considered before deploying a police dog or using lethal force, i.e. a firearm.

[death from below]

For the record DFB, neither was I there,

 

The clue is in the OP's title of the thread,

 

PS; It was on the telly

 

Oh, on the telly for a few seconds. Must be right then, nothing to do with selective editing. Funny how nothing has been mentioned in the press or tv since the tazoring - probably 'cause there's sod all to it.

 

Don't get too freaked over the next few days if you watch tv and think we are being over run by vampires and zombies, its only halloween and it's make beleive. then again, if its on TV.................................................

[Muddy Funker]

In the Conflict Resolution Model a Taser would be used or considered before deploying a police dog or using lethal force, i.e. a firearm.

 

Or even before a knee strike or punch ect.

 

This is a whole different discussion but any use of force by police or anyone is completely subjective, a firearms officer will actually use taser very quickly. Their reason being weapon retention.

They won't be deployed to something like Dale Farm unless there was intel of a firearms threat.

But in day to day work if they are in a situation where they need to gain control quickly taser will be deployed long before the likelihood of any rough and tumble.

Purely down to sidearm retention.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Muddy Funker

[UKPoacher]

Or even before a knee strike or punch ect.

 

This is a whole different discussion but any use of force by police or anyone is completely subjective, a firearms officer will actually use taser very quickly. Their reason being weapon retention.

They won't be deployed to something like Dale Farm unless there was intel of a firearms threat.

But in day to day work if they are in a situation where they need to gain control quickly taser will be deployed long before the likelihood of any rough and tumble.

Purely down to sidearm retention.

 

All this pepper mace and taser has taken all the fun out of police dog handling

[poontang]

Just watched that bit again....maybe should have made myself a bit more clearer...

 

The clip in question, (the one I'm on about) the Psychotic one shouting through the fence, Three camera men, & ONE WOMEN with a piece of paper in front of him... ...now tell me were the 6' scaffold pole is, & the plank of wood..

 

I just watched it again and it's clear that as the taser officer is telling the woman/cameramen to get back he and his colleagues are on the receiving end of rocks thrown by the activists (clearly seen at 41m15s). The camera then pans left to a group of activists standing on a mound throwing missiles. The taser red dots are clearly visible on the mound in front of them. They were at that time posing a serious threat, therefore the police reaction.

 

Fully justified.

[Dibs]

.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Dibs

[death from below]

I just watched it again and it's clear that as the taser officer is telling the woman/cameramen to get back he and his colleagues are on the receiving end of rocks thrown by the activists (clearly seen at 41m15s). The camera then pans left to a group of activists standing on a mound throwing missiles. The taser red dots are clearly visible on the mound in front of them. They were at that time posing a serious threat, therefore the police reaction.

 

Fully justified.

 

no it's not, it's on TV.

[Muddy Funker]

All this pepper mace and taser has taken all the fun out of police dog handling

 

[Devilishdave]

We expect our police to do what can be a tough and dangerous job. With that we must train them then trust them to follow their training. We dont have the right to pick apart what they have done without being in control of all of the facts.

 

Liberalism is the scurge of this country.

 

Dave

[Bazooka Joe]

They were at that time posing a serious threat, therefore the police reaction.

 

 

Ha Ha 3 camera's & a bit of paper.. ..get real...

 

 

and his colleagues are on the receiving end

...

 

of paper aeroplanes & flashy lights...