Tin Man Work Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hi I have been reloading .22 Hornet for my Walther KKJ and have been happy with the results, consistent, cost effective, but the grouping was never as tight as I'd like. I have just got a Lee Factory Crimp on this forum and tonight set it up and crimped half my latest batch of 50 reloads (Hornady 35g VMax, Winnie Brass, CCI Primer, Lil'Gun) and gone out to try to see what the differences were. I'm zeroed at 100 yards and tonight decided to shoot off the landie bonnet. The normal reloads ran well, grouping at about an inch and a bit at 100 yards, but when I ran a clip of the factory crimped reloads through, the grouping tightened down to half an inch at worst, then some cloverleafing, then (and I still don't believe this off a Landie bonnet and a bipod) a raggedy hole just off the bull on the shoot-n-see targets being used. Went to another permission and a spot where it's a 110 yard safe shot and took out two rabbits in quick time with just an elbow on a dry stone wall. I know part of this is my own confidence buzzing, but I never expected factory crimping to pull the groups in like this, and completely consistemtly. Happy man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Cracking stuff, there have been alot of arguements on here about to crimp or not to crimp. My remmy 700 in 243 shoots better with a crimp and confidence does wonders to your shooting as well. I think a lee factory crimp takes the push in pressure ( pressure to push bullet into casing) from something like 57lbs without to 140lbs with so the rounds will take alot more rattling around ( obviously it depends on crimp depth) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I believe it because it straightens them up. This consentricity is critical in the hornet, personally i use chamber type hand dies for a similar effect with less stress on the brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Thats outstanding performance, good for you U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholiath Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I crimp my hornet reloads as i thought that due to the thin neck brass there are inconsistancys in the grip pressure on the bullet and by crimping you create a more consistant grip pressure throughout the batch of rounds. Whatever it works for me also. With my hornet i found that crimping improved accuracy more than adjusting OAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I'd never load for my Hornet without crimping now. The brass is thin so neck tension isn't great. Often you can't load close to the lands because of the mag length and throat depth so that's another reason it's not great if you don't. I'm glad things have improved for you. My Hornet will group 1/2" all day and I only have a small scope on it. I recon off a rest with more mag I could do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholiath Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I'd never load for my Hornet without crimping now. The brass is thin so neck tension isn't great. Often you can't load close to the lands because of the mag length and throat depth so that's another reason it's not great if you don't. I'm glad things have improved for you. My Hornet will group 1/2" all day and I only have a small scope on it. I recon off a rest with more mag I could do better. What load are you using in yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 T M W glad its working for you it tightened my groups as well when i had the hornet :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 My current load which is right at the beginning of it's development (I've only used 15 rounds!) is 45gr Speer Spitzer over 12gr Lil-gun, CCI small pistol primer, RP brass, 1.740 oal and a good crimp with a Lee factory die. That's safe in any rifle as it's a start load. Book speed is about 2600fps, although I haven't confirned that yet. The group I shot was sitting around the 1/2" mark, although I have a lot to confirm at the next range day as I've only shot the one group and then adjusted the scope to suit! So far it's had four shots on bunnies between 40ish and 180ish yards. All hit where they should and all the bunnies died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholiath Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I load 35 gn V Max with small pistol primer, 13.3 lilgun oal 1.725 and 40 gn V Max, magnum primer,12.5 H110 1.90 oal ( i have modified a spare mag for this longer round) 40 gn sierra sp 11.5 H110, magnum primer, 1.725 oal. All shoot sub moa, if i do my bit. I tried some Berger 30 gn HP but no matter how fast or slow i pushed em i couldn't get them to consistantly hit an a4 size target at 100 yds Edited November 13, 2011 by nicholiath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I used to use 35gr V-Max but found that they wind a lot on the more open ground I've picked up recently. Even worse were Speer TNT - their low weight and a huge hollow point just don't help with long range accuracy. I did look at adjusting the mag but decided I couldn't be bothered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 My current load which is right at the beginning of it's development (I've only used 15 rounds!) is 45gr Speer Spitzer over 12gr Lil-gun, CCI small pistol primer, RP brass, 1.740 oal and a good crimp with a Lee factory die. That's safe in any rifle as it's a start load. Book speed is about 2600fps, although I haven't confirned that yet. The group I shot was sitting around the 1/2" mark, although I have a lot to confirm at the next range day as I've only shot the one group and then adjusted the scope to suit! So far it's had four shots on bunnies between 40ish and 180ish yards. All hit where they should and all the bunnies died. I should be so rash about safe in any rifle mate! Its more than a top load in some / many data tables. Actually i use 12.2 with 45 seirra hornet bullets 1.705 col and RWS cases CCI small pistol primers myself this ever so slightly compresses the charge. There are certainly some guns were this will prove too hot though. Lil Gun produces the goods at way lower pressures than H110 say which makes things a bit safer and keeps the brass good longer though (this brass life thing is the only reason i did not go the crimp route myself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholiath Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 As far as crimping and brass life go i crimp and so far have used some brass for 6 or 7 reloads with no problems. i use remington brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 As far as crimping and brass life go i crimp and so far have used some brass for 6 or 7 reloads with no problems. i use remington brass. Many things effect brass life, presure of the load is one of the most critical. However we are talking work hardening and the more it is worked the harder it gets until it eventually cracks. To avoid this yet still get the consenticity the crim die seems to give is bench rest hand dies with a bushing neck die of the same type. Nothing much else wrong with it though it seems to improve many hornets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 I should be so rash about safe in any rifle mate! Its more than a top load in some / many data tables. Actually i use 12.2 with 45 seirra hornet bullets That's interesting. Hodgdon's website states 13gr max load right up to a 55gr Hornady Soft point? What data are you working with? I've not seen any signs of pressure, in fact the load seems very mild. Obviously it's worth a mention though - I'm off to check other sources to make sure there's not a typo on their website! :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 And then there's the documented case of the lady American shotist who pours Li'l Gun into the case until it's full, swipes it level and then iserts the bullet. It's estimated at about 14.4 grs. Hey ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 That's interesting. Hodgdon's website states 13gr max load right up to a 55gr Hornady Soft point? What data are you working with? I've not seen any signs of pressure, in fact the load seems very mild. Obviously it's worth a mention though - I'm off to check other sources to make sure there's not a typo on their website! :unsure: No two rifles produce exactly the same pressure, no two cases and different brand bullets the same. Lil gun is the safest of the safe and Hornet data is generally very safe as the pressure limit was actually lowered to take acount of less than great guns and the older bore dimentions. I have a full book of Hornet loads here across all the main powder and bullet suppliers, the max load varies quite a bit but so do the primers, brass , bullets and guns (which are not always even detailed)- take care with load info is all i am saying as you could end up carrying the can for someone elses mistakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Fair point. This book... Is it something you've put together with research or something that could be found and bought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Man Work Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 What a good thread this turned into - thanks for the info and I'll keep with the 35gr VMAX heads as I know they'll work, plus the press is all set up for these so why change it when it works! I am quietly chuffed with the Walther and reloading, it's been a bit frustrating at times and definitely puzzling, but with the advice off here I'm where I wanted to be when I started with a scruffy back of the gunshop rifle and a box of reloading kit and components I didn't know a jot about. You gotta love the sport! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholiath Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 im pleased it is coming together for you! Hornet is a fantastic little round, i love mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Fair point. This book... Is it something you've put together with research or something that could be found and bought? No bought it from sinclairs, they compile one for most calibres. I also have quite a bit of info gathered from my own lirary and the net also. Thing is you find so much contradicory stuff you have to pick through it real careful like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I'm always shy of loading data gathered from forums. 99% of it is from good honest shooters but that other 1% could really spoil your day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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