Firestone Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm considering getting a GWP to train for pick-up (and as a family pet). I've heard they're not the easiest to train but I'm up for the challenge and adore the breed. Really don't want a lab/springer or cocker though, nothing bagainst them but the pointer is a bit more me. Any comments or warnings (!) would be welcome as would advice on where to get one. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm considering getting a GWP to train for pick-up (and as a family pet). I've heard they're not the easiest to train but I'm up for the challenge and adore the breed. Really don't want a lab/springer or cocker though, nothing bagainst them but the pointer is a bit more me. Any comments or warnings (!) would be welcome as would advice on where to get one. Thanks in advance. Yeah, don't. They do not all make good familly pets (despite what breeders tell you) and there is far more to training them well than you might imagine. As for picking up there are better choices by far for a first time handler and trainer. There are basically two types emerging in the UK type1. Very capable, bloody minded but very usefull in the right hands (not normally pet material) type2. Inferiour to a good lab or springer quite biddable though lack the essential bits that make up the breed (quite good as pets) Why is a pointer a bit more you if your going to use it for picking up? The master of that game is a lab and for working cover there is nothing that really betters the spaniels. Mustwork a GWP breeder in Wales has a most honest appraisal of the breed on thier web site, have a look and take note! other than that if i cannot pursade you otherwise PM me and i will give you the low down on were to get one suited to your purposes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwen3513 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 hi GWP are a strong willed breed, and require consistancy in their handling, I once read by a wellknown HPR writer that the GWP "is not a novice ride". you will need to discuss tempermant with breeders, and get the right line for you and your family. i have owned a GWP as my first HPR and he was a right bolshy male, constantly vying for top dog position so needed to be in control from day 1. if you are looking for an easy life with a HPR, then the GWP is not a breed you can relax with, a strong hunter and will often work for themselves. i would far rather a person get a different breed if they feel unable to handle a GWP, which in the wrong hands can give the breed more bad press, when it is a handler/owner problem and not a breed problem. BUT if you have the right dog and right aptitude you cannot beat them in my opinion my current HPR are wirehaired Vizsla, a much more biddable dog, but i still get the whiskery face good luck jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 hi GWP are a strong willed breed, and require consistancy in their handling, I once read by a wellknown HPR writer that the GWP "is not a novice ride". you will need to discuss tempermant with breeders, and get the right line for you and your family. i have owned a GWP as my first HPR and he was a right bolshy male, constantly vying for top dog position so needed to be in control from day 1. if you are looking for an easy life with a HPR, then the GWP is not a breed you can relax with, a strong hunter and will often work for themselves. i would far rather a person get a different breed if they feel unable to handle a GWP, which in the wrong hands can give the breed more bad press, when it is a handler/owner problem and not a breed problem. BUT if you have the right dog and right aptitude you cannot beat them in my opinion my current HPR are wirehaired Vizsla, a much more biddable dog, but i still get the whiskery face good luck jan An honest and true reflection, many now wisely take the wirey viz route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straightbarrel Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) Why is a pointer a bit more you if your going to use it for picking up? The master of that game is a lab There may be trouble ahead! Edited November 23, 2011 by straightbarrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy198712 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 i got a "normal" haired viz and hes a lovely family dog!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooternick Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 And i have a normal GSP which lives indoors full time, and is the best company you could possibly have, if you train them from day 1 you will do ok , my GSP is great at hunting and pointing and im very impressed with her retrieving too. Was a bit apprehensive at first i admit, but its one of the better decisions i have made in my life !I say go for it mate you get out what you put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 My first gundog is a GWP and I have been very lucky. He has the best temperament and is great with other dogs and the kids. He could be a better gundog but that's my failings not his and to be honest he does exactly what I want him to. He is a good hunter and very steady on point but would not make a field trials dog. You get out what you put in so it's to you really. Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm in the same boat as Dirty Harry, in fact my dog's from the same litter. Fantastic temperament, my kids abuse him terribly, dress him up, stick their hands in his mouth etc and he's always been great. He is an instinctive hunter and a good pointer and retriever, but he could have done with 15 mins intense training a day from an early age which I haven't been able to give him. They can be quite aloof, so I think if you want one as a pet you need to treat them as one from a young age. They also are slow to mature, mine's three and he's still as bouncy as he was as a pup. I can see the potential's there with him but am aware it would take a lot of time and effort to get it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziplex Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I have a GSP, she lives indoors and is an angel....very (overly) friendly, fantastic temperament with all visitors and other dogs, she is so chilled it beggars belief but as soon as she is out she is like a machine. She will hunt/point tirelessly and cover vast distances especially over open ground like the hams where I go wildfowling. Her retrieves are very hit and miss and she's not at all tolerant of the cold if sat still for any length of time and gets bored very quickly. I wanted a dog for pigeon shooting and wildfowling, I realise now I made a mistake on two counts...1, With hindsight I was inexperienced with HPR breeds and was out of my depth during training and 2, wrong dog (obviously) for my needs. In comparison I honestly found my little springer a doddle to train....no problems at all. She's a fantastic dog and we wouldn't be without her, a natural clown of an animal too with bags of personality but if I realised how hard headed towards hunting she was going to be, amongst other things, I wouldn't of bothered. What I would suggest is thinking long hard about getting the right dog for the shooting you do, if you decide on a 'pointer' take all the advice you can get and maybe tie up with someone with experience from the off who can steer you in the right direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 There may be trouble ahead! I will bet 90% of flustated and uneducated working breeds would do that loose on a large heard of daft park deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 It seems Gully and Dirty Harry have the type 2 dog i mentioned. Get a type 1 and the "issues" are the polar oposite. GSP and GWP are different breeds not just different coated versions of the same BTW, i have only a small amount of experiance of them and found all examples very different in nature to the GWP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 It seems Gully and Dirty Harry have the type 2 dog i mentioned. Get a type 1 and the "issues" are the polar oposite. GSP and GWP are different breeds not just different coated versions of the same BTW, i have only a small amount of experiance of them and found all examples very different in nature to the GWP But as we've both said, that's probably down to our training. I think your type 1 and 2 seperate those dogs that have been well socialised and those that have been well trained. I don't see any reason why you couldn't have both if you're willing to put in the time. Or, are you saying that a dog that is part of the family is 'spoiled' and can't be a perfect worker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I have a GSP, she lives indoors and is an angel....very (overly) friendly, fantastic temperament with all visitors and other dogs, she is so chilled it beggars belief but as soon as she is out she is like a machine. She will hunt/point tirelessly and cover vast distances especially over open ground like the hams where I go wildfowling. Her retrieves are very hit and miss and she's not at all tolerant of the cold if sat still for any length of time and gets bored very quickly. I wanted a dog for pigeon shooting and wildfowling, I realise now I made a mistake on two counts...1, With hindsight I was inexperienced with HPR breeds and was out of my depth during training and 2, wrong dog (obviously) for my needs. In comparison I honestly found my little springer a doddle to train....no problems at all. She's a fantastic dog and we wouldn't be without her, a natural clown of an animal too with bags of personality but if I realised how hard headed towards hunting she was going to be, amongst other things, I wouldn't of bothered. What I would suggest is thinking long hard about getting the right dog for the shooting you do, if you decide on a 'pointer' take all the advice you can get and maybe tie up with someone with experience from the off who can steer you in the right direction What Ziplex said. GSPs are not for novices (I now know that) GWPs definitely are not. My GSP is like Scooby Doo indoors and like an Aston Martin in the field (great lines, high performance, low reliability). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziplex Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 What Ziplex said. GSPs are not for novices (I now know that) GWPs definitely are not. My GSP is like Scooby Doo indoors and like an Aston Martin in the field (great lines, high performance, low reliability). well said, I like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwen3513 Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 like i said speak to the breeders and get the right lines that suit you. strong german bred lines within the german breeds can be very willfull hunters, in both GSP and GWP. in Germany the GWP is also bred to kill certain prey,and hunt boar, hence they breed for this kind of character. they are beautiful dogs, and maybe i will have another in the future, but for now my wiry vizzy is just brilliant. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziplex Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 like i said speak to the breeders and get the right lines that suit you. strong german bred lines within the german breeds can be very willfull hunters, in both GSP and GWP. in Germany the GWP is also bred to kill certain prey,and hunt boar, hence they breed for this kind of character. they are beautiful dogs, and maybe i will have another in the future, but for now my wiry vizzy is just brilliant. Jan Good point Jan......I went in blind and bought Bree from Mrs Gill of Birkenwald fame (fully german bred), little did I know what I was letting myself in for, 'wilful hunter' is very much what she is. Fab' dog and I fully understand why people love/use them but I should of looked elsewhere, you live and learn! I have spoken to people who have GSP's and they're hugely different in their habits, ie: like to hunt and range out but nowhere near as much as mine who borders on fanatical, different lines/different dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) add another one to the ones that are a pleasure to have in the house, mine is a character and yes they may not be as hard work as the full on continental ones but who wants a gun dog thats so useless thay have to go out and buy a lab I think I'd cut my wrists before that You have to be consistent with them much like any dog and stamp on them hard to start with to get anywhere, mine is far from perfect but works well out and as a family dog loves children and is bullet proof. She had more experience than most of them when she was a pup so you never know how much you form the temperament but this one certainly shares her bed with them, gets crawled over and played with and never a sign of malice. It goes the other way if they get too carried away she just takes herself away. The key I think is exercise they do need a decent amount and they like to be with you as much as possible after that its conditioning. I use one in a hide and she is always in the truck when foxing and then I have a dog who is rather keen on beating, just make sure you see the parents if the bitch is the size of a small horse has a long shaggy coat and bounces about uncontrollably then run away. There are increasing numbers of decent ones about just watch out for inbreeding in the pedigree some are shocking by some well known names on the web. It gave rise to a few with epilepsy so there is an element of buyer beware. Get the right one and you will have an excellent dog however the wrong one will give you serious nightmares Edited November 24, 2011 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 But as we've both said, that's probably down to our training. I think your type 1 and 2 seperate those dogs that have been well socialised and those that have been well trained. I don't see any reason why you couldn't have both if you're willing to put in the time. Or, are you saying that a dog that is part of the family is 'spoiled' and can't be a perfect worker? No your reading far too much into it, i mean exactly as i said 2 types- its hard to explain this unless you have experiance of both types. Some English lines are way different from the GWP of a decade ago and of many imported german lines. Totally poles appart, though as with all breeding you can get throwbacks in any line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 add another one to the ones that are a pleasure to have in the house, mine is a character and yes they may not be as hard work as the full on continental ones but who wants a gun dog thats so useless thay have to go out and buy a lab I think I'd cut my wrists before that You have to be consistent with them much like any dog and stamp on them hard to start with to get anywhere, mine is far from perfect but works well out and as a family dog loves children and is bullet proof. She had more experience than most of them when she was a pup so you never know how much you form the temperament but this one certainly shares her bed with them, gets crawled over and played with and never a sign of malice. It goes the other way if they get too carried away she just takes herself away. The key I think is exercise they do need a decent amount and they like to be with you as much as possible after that its conditioning. I use one in a hide and she is always in the truck when foxing and then I have a dog who is rather keen on beating, just make sure you see the parents if the bitch is the size of a small horse has a long shaggy coat and bounces about uncontrollably then run away. There are increasing numbers of decent ones about just watch out for inbreeding in the pedigree some are shocking by some well known names on the web. It gave rise to a few with epilepsy so there is an element of buyer beware. Get the right one and you will have an excellent dog however the wrong one will give you serious nightmares Labs aint GWP,s and neither are spaniels. Getting them mingled together is as wrong as turning up to a day on grouse with a .308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Gully and my dogs are from parents who both work with hawks. I wonder if that has anything to do with them having a better temperament and being easier to handle. Which lines are supposed to be harder to get on with? Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I was sitting in the pub the other day and a chap came in with a young GWP. I of course got chatting to him as my dog was in the car outside and it turns out he is a German working in the city for a couple of years and the dog is a Draahthaar that he's brought over with him. I'm taking him on my pheasant shoot tomorrow, so it should be an interesting day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushashi_miyamoto Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Also have gsp. Had more experience of labs. They are completely different all I will say is I thought I knew what I was getting into. I was wrong but I learned a lot from weekend pointer training at Laochin Gundogs. Wasn't that expensive and wish had gone when dog was younger. That said she is awesome pet and fantastic hunter. But as a Gundog you have to ask your self can you work that dog and how much time can you spend with it. They are clingy and can throw tantrums. I love my dog but in retrospect I should have done more research. My shoot had all old dogs and the thought was they have stamina to do the work of 4 dogs. She does but can do it in 30 mins. That said she is smartest and most loveable pet and really adopted her pack. So now we all follow the pointer rather than driven shoot and actually for a small group of amateurs an extended dog walk with warning of game is good fun. I could never use her on a guest day. I never get an invite back as we'd either clear their ground or I'd be forever holding her on the leash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnabbs Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 If you want a dog for picking up get a lab its just the right dog for the job. I have a very hairy vizsla and he is great but just not a picking up dog. HPR's are bred for hunting and at distance so are just not at home on a driven shoot. If you want a dog for roughshooting it will excel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 If you want a dog for picking up get a lab its just the right dog for the job... Righto, and who knows but that they might even pick up the knife to keep someone from slitting the wrist... MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.