Alpha Mule Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Folks, I've been through most of a box of CCI subs which proved to be very tight fitting. It then proved impossible to get un-fired rounds to extract (fired rounds will extract fine). I've had enough and have loaded up some Winnies (which worked fine on a previous box), but now won't extract either. I've stripped and cleaned the firing pin and mechanism, which was slighty gunked up, but nothing serious. I re-built and fitted the firing pin and tried my Winnies again, but find that un-fired rounds still don't extract. I've had a bore snake down the barrel too. I pulled my CZ HMR pin for comparison and find that one of the claws that do the extracting is slightly worn compaired to the virtually new HMR. The claws look identical (other than the wear). Can I safely swap the claws to test if I need a new one? In the picture the .22 is on the left and the worn claw is on the right of the assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Off memory they are a diffent length on LR and MR versions, though i aint got two to check here. Remove clean and a light stoning to remove any burrs should sort it, failing that they aint hard to get hold of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Folks, I've been through most of a box of CCI subs which proved to be very tight fitting. It then proved impossible to get un-fired rounds to extract (fired rounds will extract fine). I've had enough and have loaded up some Winnies (which worked fine on a previous box), but now won't extract either. I've stripped and cleaned the firing pin and mechanism, which was slighty gunked up, but nothing serious. I re-built and fitted the firing pin and tried my Winnies again, but find that un-fired rounds still don't extract. I've had a bore snake down the barrel too. I pulled my CZ HMR pin for comparison and find that one of the claws that do the extracting is slightly worn compaired to the virtually new HMR. The claws look identical (other than the wear). Can I safely swap the claws to test if I need a new one? In the picture the .22 is on the left and the worn claw is on the right of the assembly. I think I've got some spares that you can have, let me have a look and see if they are where I think they are and you might be in luck. I'll PM you when I get home and have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Have you removed the extractor claws to clean under them so that they move in fully and grip the cartridge rim (you mention firing pin, you possibly mean bolt, a bit confusing). If you have two identically shaped (eg, "sharp") extractor claws, which way will the cylinder exit the action? If one was blunt so that it "let go" earlier than the other, then what would happen? Consequently, the trick is to put them back on the right side. After cleaning if it fails to extract (a fired case will have expanded and will be easier to get out), then, yep it's possible extractor claw nib wear. As said, readily available but you'll, as ever, get ripped off. One for the Weihrauch Hornet cost me £12! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 In the picture the .22 is on the left and the worn claw is on the right of the assembly. There may be some wear there but the right hand claw should not look like the left. They are supposed to be different. I have had extraction problems once, and cleaning the bolt thoroughly and the first inch or so of the barrel fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 i know you said you snaked the barrel , but have you gave the chamber a bloomin good scrub ? and wiped the ammo with a cloth before loading mag ? i had similar prob with my cz using winnies , it was a wax build up in chamber that was making the jam . good scrub with a 22 bronze brush in the chamber worked for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I have taken the assemble apart to its components. I was very careful to ensure the claws went back in the correct sides. I'm aware they aren't symmetrical - I think it's so the empty case gets chucked out of the breech on the right side (do a slow-mo eject and you'll see what I mean). There is a fair bit of wear on the shorter less sharp claw. I've cleaned under the claws and found there was a very slight build up in the channel they live in. I've also cleaned out the recesses the hooks live in when the bolt is fully 'home', in the crown of the barrel. The circlip that holds the claws in place is good and strong and ensures they are held in the correct position to grab the rim of a case. I've checked this with the bolt removed. The previous owner preferred RWS subs, which to my mind are very waxy. I've cleaned all the surfaces I can get at, but don't own a brush to get properly vigorous inside the barrel. I can extract the rounds using the tip of a very small screwdriver to get the round back from the crown, then using a finger nail get it the rest of the way out (Now if you’re looking for a job to make you nervous – this is a good one!). As the round came out it did feel like it was coated in wax, even though I’d wiped it before loading it. I meant the pin earlier as I meant that I've had the pin out of the bolt/assembly and checked all the internals are clean and not burred. Sorry, I could have been clearer on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 AFAIK the claw shown on the left in your picture is the "extractor",following issues with my CZ I had to file it to alter shape slightly as advised on Rimfire Central:no extraction issues since. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417868&highlight=gizzy+mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) The Gizzy mod seems to be to make the tip of the 'extractor' leg sharp, but mine is fairly sharp as it is (and the area behind/below it is 'square' too). I've checked the pin for over-extension and it doesn't. When I fit a round to the bolt, in my hand, it all fits nicely and seems to pull and hold as imagine it should. Kyska: loving the offer! Are your 'spares' all from .22LRs? Edited November 22, 2011 by Alpha Mule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 "The Gizzy mod seems to be to make the tip of the 'extractor' leg sharp, but mine is fairly sharp as it is (and the area behind/below it is 'square'" I found on mine I had to file the area behind the tip so it slightly angled.Also thinking back I slightly nipped the retaining saddle spring to give a bit more tension but reading through your post again I think your problem may be the "holder" http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351811 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yup, My extractor wasn't my real worry, it was always the carrier, as it looks worn. I've just compaired the claws from both my LR and HMR and for all intents they are identical. So a quick swap and hey presto, perfect ejections (that sounds rude). I've fitted the HMR with the old LR carrier claw and it works fine. Thanks for the info and links folks - I'm a very happy chappy now and I'm sure this thread will be usefull to many more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 A tip: The circlip isn't symmetrical. The lugs are slightly different lengths as are the grooves they fit into. Fit the long one first as the short one is MUCH easier to fit last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I had this with mine at first, keeping the chamber clean with a boresnake sorted it out. I'd pop a pipe cleaner down the little gas hole as well, which helped clear any crud out of where the extractors go. Sorry this might not be much help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I had this with mine at first, keeping the chamber clean with a boresnake sorted it out. I'd pop a pipe cleaner down the little gas hole as well, which helped clear any crud out of where the extractors go. Sorry this might not be much help.. It'll help someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think I've got some spares that you can have, let me have a look and see if they are where I think they are and you might be in luck. I'll PM you when I get home and have a look. ARGHHHH! Can you have that look please mate, just had one stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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