Insurance

[Pole Star]

Bizarre! Someone thinks that a liability insurance policy will somehow stop them losing a certificate due to some or other illegal action? Someone is confused - I know I am anyway

As expcted the fist post comes from the whiter than white !! Its not just about liability cover ! its regards basc cover in genereral on fire arms issues , the case I mentioned Piebob came to a happy end for the man concerned .

But if you look at my post again & take a good look at the list of whiter than white types who have got caught ! , that should make you aware of the facts bizarre indeed !.

Kind Regards Pole Star

[David BASC]

A public liability policy covers third party liability and will not protect you nor pay your legal fees if you commit the criminal offence of drinking and driving.

 

All we could do would be to offer you some suggested contacts of lawyers whom we know have worked on firearms cases in the past.

 

We do not have a legal expenses insurance policy, we self insure, but use the same criteria to assess case for appeals funding as to legal expenses underwriters . See the firearms page in the BASC web site.

 

Always remember that After The Event legal expenses is available to cover your legal costs, and your lawyer will be able to give you guidance if your case is insurable.

 

David

Edited March 18, 2012 by David BASC

[dollydip]

scolopax thanks a good point you make there

 

david basc does the basc policy cover you for indemnity to principal as you mentioned? at present im clay pigeon shooting but i would like to get into pigeon,rabbit corvid shooting obviousley before i start i need insurance does the basc offer more protection than say the cpsa ( i mention these as i know someone who has there policy )

[David BASC]

dolllydip,

 

Yes the BASC policy certainly does include ITP.

 

As far as I can tell the CPSA public liability policy and the BASC policy are broadly similar in terms of level of cover, but as they only publish a leaflet about their insurance on the web, you would need to get hold of their Key Facts document or call them up to see if there were any exclusions such as a policy excess, or indeed if ITP is covered.

 

David

[dollydip]

thanks for your advice david much appreciated but from what others have said landowners know about the basc which makes them feel more comfortable it may be an easy decision to make

[sixhills 69]

A public liability policy covers third party liability and will not protect you nor pay your legal fees if you commit the criminal offence of drinking and driving.

 

All we could do would be to offer you some suggested contacts of lawyers whom we know have worked on firearms cases in the past.

 

We do not have a legal expenses insurance policy, we self insure, but use the same criteria to assess case for appeals funding as to legal expenses underwriters . See the firearms page in the BASC web site.

 

Always remember that After The Event legal expenses is available to cover your legal costs, and your lawyer will be able to give you guidance if your case is insurable.

 

David

 

Sorry but after reading this i feel i have to put things into context here you State" nor pay your fees if you commit a criminal offence" i had my tickets revoked in December 2011 i never commited any crimianl offence. I was not in a position were i had legal expense cover attached to any other insurance policys (but i have now) when i approached my shooting insurance i.e yourselves i was told to well you know the answer to that one. why not just admit you supply NO help or cover and leave your members out to dry if they do not have the money to pay for solicitors and barristers themselves.

I was lucky that i was able to deffend my case and did all the work myself but the strees it has put on myself and my family is un-thinkable.

Why not just be up front and honest a state " we do not cover legal expenses if you do something wrong or are falsley acussed"

I was given no advice Re after the event legal expenses and was never directed to any company that does this.

[dollydip]

well after all the advice from the forum users i joined a BASC at the weekend

[Big Marty]

SACS,,I find it has good offers..

[monkeyboots]

SACS,,I find it has good offers..

 

sacs legal fees only pay out to go to court if your case has more than a 50% chance of winning if it falls below that rate then you wont get to court unless u fund it yourself and i speak from experiance :(

 

ps just to add my cousin had a revoked FAC a while back he was a member of BASC he was told it was a waste of time appealing as he wasnt gonna win his case so he stuck in the appeal himself and had his FAC back within 3 months

Edited March 27, 2012 by monkeyboots

[David BASC]

Dollydip, glad to have you as a member, you know where I am if you need me.

 

Sixhills, how we can and do help members with firearms issues is fully detailed on our web site.

 

After the event legal expenses insurance is something you can ask the solicitor takes you case about, they will help fill in the form for you as some of the information the insurer requires comes from the solicitor.

 

Monkeyboots your are spot on, legal expenses insurance (whether its After the Event or Before the Event) will only pay out if there is a good chance of winning, and, may I add, if the underwriter can get costs back.

 

In many civil cases ‘the looser pays’, however this is not always the case when appealing revocations, refusal to grant, and refusal to renew thus its not so attractive for underwriters.

 

Having said all that, we are looking at how we can improve our services in this area and we have a few ideas in the pipe line.

 

Best wishes to all.

 

David

[al4x]

Personally I think its amazing the views that people have that whatever happens their organisation should pour money down the drain on failed legal challenges, surely people must realize the costs this would incur to the rest of the membership in general. As for the drink driving suggestion they are having a laugh I'd leave an organisation that was going to fight revocations on that basis as it would have no credibility at all.

Thats why they offer advice and tell you if you are on a loosing wicket so to speak to avoid you pouring good money after bad, no one wants to give up their hobby but come on rarely is it for no reason at all.

[mudpatten]

Probably for the first time ever I agree with a14x.

 

To paraphrase some peoples viewpoint. "I`ve just been on a drunken shooting spree and murdered three of my neighbours and I think that the police might revoke my gun licence. What are BASC going to do to defend me?"

[sixhills 69]

sacs legal fees only pay out to go to court if your case has more than a 50% chance of winning if it falls below that rate then you wont get to court unless u fund it yourself and i speak from experiance :(

 

ps just to add my cousin had a revoked FAC a while back he was a member of BASC he was told it was a waste of time appealing as he wasnt gonna win his case so he stuck in the appeal himself and had his FAC back within 3 months

Top Man thats what i did I was told by BASC i could ask but would not get any help i appealed did all the work myself and won how about that and BASC won't even respond to my complaints

 

Glad to here cousin won his appeal

[sixhills 69]

Personally I think its amazing the views that people have that whatever happens their organisation should pour money down the drain on failed legal challenges, surely people must realize the costs this would incur to the rest of the membership in general. As for the drink driving suggestion they are having a laugh I'd leave an organisation that was going to fight revocations on that basis as it would have no credibility at all.

Thats why they offer advice and tell you if you are on a loosing wicket so to speak to avoid you pouring good money after bad, no one wants to give up their hobby but come on rarely is it for no reason at all.

 

I totally agree with what you have said and i stand by you in the fact that drink driving should never be challenged BUT some times Firearms licencing departments are not always right and they abuse thier authority i spent nearley three months trying to get the police into court as thier evidance was well something of a joke.

 

I understand what you mean about costs effecting every other member, I never thought i would be in that boat i also never new that legal fees were not covered since having my tickets returned after 20 mins in crown court i have added legal fees to my house insurance BUT never wish to be in that position again. My Grip with BASC is they do not make it clear that legal fees are not covered i will not discuss my other problems i have found on an open forum but when you get Know response from a complaint and they can not even contact me.

 

The Director of SACS emailed me the day of my court case asking if i had got on ok, as i had asked them for advise as a no member due to the fact that BASC just dropped me whilst i was still a member.

 

anyone that has commited a criminal offence and has been charged i feel should have thier firearms licences removed if you threaten someone it a firearm should also loos thier ticket,

 

BASC get you facts right and make sure that people know they are not covered and point then in the right direction and tell them which legal fees to get.

 

Sack a few members of staff and you might not have to stand up to being ridiculed by this and other shooting fourum

[David BASC]

We did not just drop you. And don't say we have ignored your complaint either, that's simply not true. I do not wish to say more until you have received the reply to your complaint.

 

I appreciate you feel let down, and as I have said we will always try to improve our service, we always try to do our best and frankly get it right in the vast majority if cases. We have to make decisions quickly based on the information we have at the time. If we need more info, then we ask if you have a solicitor for them to call us to see how we can help...sound familiar

[sixhills 69]

We did not just drop you. And don't say we have ignored your complaint either, that's simply not true. I do not wish to say more until you have received the reply to your complaint.

 

I appreciate you feel let down, and as I have said we will always try to improve our service, we always try to do our best and frankly get it right in the vast majority if cases. We have to make decisions quickly based on the information we have at the time. If we need more info, then we ask if you have a solicitor for them to call us to see how we can help...sound familiar

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When you say you did not just drop you what did you do the person that was helping and supporting me went sick (not His Fault) the other person you had made a comment on the phone but i do not think this is for an onpen forum. But the last 6 weeks when every thing was happening and i needed help who helped me not a sole so i worked into that court not knowing what was coming my way as Alan had no got to the court stage with me so if that is not dropping me well what is it i continued for the further 3 months to pay my membership. so don't give me we nver dropped you.

 

I sent an email to one of your managers i have still not had any and i mean any corispondense from BASC a " dear member thank you for you points or copmlaint we will be looking into this and will get back to you as soon as get the findings of my investigation" this could have been an email NOTHING, phone call Nothing,Letter Nothing

 

So your respones lacks a lot

 

regards Sixhills69

[Fatcatsplat]

At the end of the day here chaps, BASC, NGO, SACS and anyone else i've left out has little or no input on any insurance claim - It's the insurer(s) they deal with that call the shots and whether the coverage is excess or primary. Everything else is down to the deal they cut, the dollars they have to pay for it, the spread of risk and the claims made against the scheme.

 

Over a 5/10 year span NO UNDERWRITER WILL EVER MAKE A PENNY PIECE IN PROFIT from any of these affinity schemes - I know what the premiums they pay are vs the claims paid and outstanding.

 

As far as drunk blokes and liability go (per previous posts)- The entire premise of liability is that it's something beyond your control over which you have no influence - You get sloshed, that's your decision.

 

Insurance is there for the unexpected only.

[sixhills 69]

FROM Davis BASC If we need more info, then we ask if you have a solicitor for them to call us to see how we can help...sound familiar

no it does not sound familiar your organistaion new i was not using a solicitor i was sending paper work from the police direct to your team as i was defending myself sound fimiliar

[David BASC]

Sixhills, your complaint has been received, you and I have swapped several PMs about it and you will get a formal response form the CEO once it’s been fully investigated.

 

As I said, we will always try our best, and will always look to improve.

 

I am very pleased you got your licence back, and hope you never get into another situation where the police think it’s necessary to take your guns and licence away.

 

I think though this is a clear example, and I am not trying to be blame anyone here, why it’s so important for people to read the insurance information that they get, to make sure they are covered for what they think they are.

 

Every new member of BASC is sent a copy of the full policy wording and a ‘Key Facts’ document, with is a special document set pout according to the rules of the Financial Services Authority, with lists the key features and exclusions of the policy.

 

Every member is sent a fresh copy of the Key Facts document before they renew.

 

This is why I have said time and time again I am surprised that although one of the main motivating factors for people to join a shooting association is to get insurance, most organisations don’t furnish their members with a hard copy of the insurance policy and a policy summary when they join and at renewal…as I said before, without that how do you know what you are buying?

 

David