Actionpigeons Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) It maybe my age as I am getting on a bit, but some times I really wonder if some people should have a shotgun. What crop is this?, is this hooded crow?, is this a ferret or a mink? are just a few question people are asking on here. Know what you are shooting at before you shoot it is the first rule of anyone shooting anything,Its no good asking what some thing is after you have shot it. Go shooting with some one who knows and get some field craft would be my advice. Edited April 28, 2012 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) It maybe my age as I am getting on a bit, but some times I really wonder if some people should have a shotgun. What crop is this?, is this hooded crow?, is this a ferret or a mink? are just a few question people are asking on here. Know what you are shooting at before you shoot it is the first rule of anyone shooting anything,Its no good asking what some thing is after you have shot it. Go shooting with some one who knows and get some field craft would be my advice. Excellent, you offering then? And therein lies part of the problem. I wildfowl because there is a local club that I joined and as such I have been mentored for a year as well as doing my homework on quarry identification. For anything else other than rabbit and wood pigeon with the air rifle, I'd struggle to be honest. I'm not country born and bred. I live in the South East and the difficulty in obtaining permissions is extreme, I've yet to find a Pigeon Shooting Club with vacancies (come to that, I've only found one club in the whole of Sussex). I have a couple of paddocks I shoot rabbit over but I can't get anywhere near any farm land and in three years of trying have never found a local shooter willing to take anyone out, probably as they're not prepared to risk their permissions with a newbie stranger. You can't blame them for that. I don't think I've ever seen a mink and would probably struggle to differentiate the mustelids anyway. Not everyone has been fortunate to grow up in a conducive environment but is that good reason to stop them from experiencing the countryside and country ways at whatever age they may be? Or indeed from owning a shotgun? I know plenty of clay shooters who NEVER shoot live so why would they need to know their quarry? Edited April 28, 2012 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Excellent, you offering then? And therein lies part of the problem. I wildfowl because there is a local club that I joined and as such I have been mentored for a year as well as doing my homework on quarry identification. For anything else other than rabbit and wood pigeon with the air rifle, I'd struggle to be honest. I'm not country born and bred. I live in the South East and the difficulty in obtaining permissions is extreme, I've yet to find a Pigeon Shooting Club with vacancies (come to that, I've only found one club in the whole of Sussex). I have a couple of paddocks I shoot rabbit over but I can't get anywhere near any farm land and in three years of trying have never found a local shooter willing to take anyone out, probably as they're not prepared to risk their permissions with a newbie stranger. You can't blame them for that. I don't think I've ever seen a mink and would probably struggle to differentiate the mustelids anyway. Not everyone has been fortunate to grow up in a conducive environment but is that good reason to stop them from experiencing the countryside and country ways at whatever age they may be? Or indeed from owning a shotgun? I know plenty of clay shooters who NEVER shoot live so why would they need to know their quarry? I have and do take new shooter out; a young lad over on the shoot I beat on has been out with me pigeon shooting a cpl of times as well as a few others. You sound like you know what you are talking about and you have took the time to do your homework on quarry identification, good. As for the lads that clay shoot well there is little chance of them shooting a sparrow hawk or a woodpecker as it comes past thinking it’s a pigeon. Yes your right I am lucky, I was born into hunt sevice and have worked in field sports (Hunting) untill I retiered. My point is, putting a picture on here and asking what something is after you have shot it is not really what you should be doing, if your not sure what it is don’t shoot it! There is more to shooting than killing things, I watch good shooters at the shoot I go to and if its not a good bird its left to fly on, Its about fild craft and etecut both seem to be slipping away. My spelling not up to much sorry Edited April 28, 2012 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) It maybe my age as I am getting on a bit, but some times I really wonder if some people should have a shotgun. What crop is this?, is this hooded crow?, is this a ferret or a mink? are just a few question people are asking on here. Know what you are shooting at before you shoot it is the first rule of anyone shooting anything,Its no good asking what some thing is after you have shot it. Go shooting with some one who knows and get some field craft would be my advice. It could well be your age but it has come across like your a grumpy old sod, I would say that if they are asking the questions (on a shooting forum for discussions question and answers ) then good for them for wanting to learn what they are or shroud be doing in the field. I've been shooting for years country born and bred and I for one am happy to answer there questions if I can. Cheer up grumpy Just to point out I don't agree with putting a pic of a dead animal on here then asking, ask first! Edited April 28, 2012 by Tis1979 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 It could well be your age but it has come across like your a grumpy old sod, I would say that if they are asking the questions (on a shooting forum for discussions question and answers ) then good for them for wanting to learn what they are or shroud be doing in the field. I've been shooting for years country born and bred and I for one am happy to answer there questions if I can. Cheer up grumpy you could be right...lol i am a grumpy old sod. My point is, putting a picture on here and asking what something is after you have shot it is not really what you should be doing, if your not sure what it is don’t shoot it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 I think most "older" shooters, like myself, were more likely to have been shown and taught things by a "mentor". in my case it was my Grandfather. It does seem harder to find "mentors" nowadays, judging by a lot of the posts on Pigeon Watch. Regarding the things you really should know, like quarry, or crop identification, seasons, etc., there is a lot of information available on the Internet, Google is your friend, especially Google Images. Other things are learned best by experience and then you have to still keep an open mind, because things are continually changing. By asking questions on Pigeon Watch you will get some answers and they will help, but you often have to adjust them to your own situation, or experiences. A lot of people on here do take new shooters out, but when I have done this I do expect them to know the basics regarding laws and quarry identification (and they usually do ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenelmh Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) I have and do take new shooter out; a young lad over on the shoot I beat on has been out with me pigeon shooting a cpl of times as well as a few others. You sound like you know what you are talking about and you have took the time to do your homework on quarry identification, good. As for the lads that clay shoot well there is little chance of them shooting a sparrow hawk or a woodpecker as it comes past thinking it’s a pigeon. Yes your right I am lucky, I was born into hunt sevice and have worked in field sports (Hunting) untill I retiered. My point is, putting a picture on here and asking what something is after you have shot it is not really what you should be doing, if your not sure what it is don’t shoot it! There is more to shooting than killing things, I watch good shooters at the shoot I go to and if its not a good bird its left to fly on, Its about fild craft and etecut both seem to be slipping away So's spelling skills.. I agree with you though, if you are asking once the thing has been shot it's too late! But, I also sympathise with anyone who cannot even get the chance to shoot live quarry as I am one of those. I wish there were more people (perhaps on PW) that would offer the opportunity to shoot with them! Edited April 28, 2012 by kenelmh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 you could be right...lol i am a grumpy old sod. My point is, putting a picture on here and asking what something is after you have shot it is not really what you should be doing, if your not sure what it is don’t shoot it! Totally agree mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 So's spelling skills.. I agree with you though, if you are asking once the thing has been shot it's too late! But, I also sympathise with anyone who cannot even get the chance to shoot live quarry as I am one of those. I wish there were more people (perhaps on PW) that would offer the opportunity to shoot with them! i know my spelling is bad...lol but i did leave school at 13 and a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) A lot of people on here do take new shooters out, but when I have done this I do expect them to know the basics regarding laws and quarry identification (and they usually do ). I agree that you should at least have half an idea what you are shooting and what you can/cannot shoot but you can only learn so much from pictures on the internet, as I found wildfowling, so much of duck identification starts with how they fly, how big they are, what they sound like and then finally maybe what they look like. You don't get that from pictures. There are good numbers who do take new shooters out, but I have to say that they are mainly 'oop North'. However, I don't recall ever seeing an offer being made on the boards in Sussex, or come to that Kent, Surrey or Hampshire. I come back to what I wrote earlier regarding people being unwilling to risk hard won permissions on a newbie. Edited April 28, 2012 by -Mongrel- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 I don't agree with shooting something then asking what it is, that's not a good way to do things. In my view, if you aren't certain what something is then it shouldn't be shot, and if possible when one gets home they might be able to do a search on Google and see what it was for future reference if possible. I'm sure many would love to go out with someone experienced, but it's difficult. Many are struggling to get any sort of permission, when they do get a permission they worry about keeping the land owner happy so they'll shoot anything that looks like a pigeon, as they want to get as many as possible to keep the permission. There don't seem to be many people on here offering to teach people, and not everyone can let anybody onto their permission even if they'd like to. It's not that easy to learn in the field when you don't have anyone showing you the ropes, so asking questions on forums seems to be the only way people can learn anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyshooter Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 It could well be your age but it has come across like your a grumpy old sod, I would say that if they are asking the questions (on a shooting forum for discussions question and answers ) then good for them for wanting to learn what they are or shroud be doing in the field. I've been shooting for years country born and bred and I for one am happy to answer there questions if I can. Cheer up grumpy Just to point out I don't agree with putting a pic of a dead animal on here then asking, ask first! Question Tis1979's, where are all the pigeons on the acres of peas at Hatfield ?, have permission to shoot and can not find one . Old, not grumpy, fairly new to pigeons, open mind, bit of arthritis, Gel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Question Tis1979's, where are all the pigeons on the acres of peas at Hatfield ?, have permission to shoot and can not find one . Old, not grumpy, fairly new to pigeons, open mind, bit of arthritis, Gel. From where I see it, asking questions on how to go about something is fine (god knows I must have asked a million questions in my apprenticeship) also it takes a very long time to hone your skills. An apprenticeship is exactly what field craft is, however not all people are cut out to do one or would ever consider participating in one. There is not an easy solution to gaining knowledge on the art of field craft and all that goes with it. Some of it, is instinct and the rest takes a long time to get part way there, as every day is different (even as I type this reply there are 150 pigeons swirling around the trees out the front of my house and I am trying to work out how I could get to shoot them in the gale out side!) The only winners in plug and play shooting are the shops or the person buying the second hand equipment being sold on the internet. People don’t sit and watch how birds feed, you can’t just turn up…you must have a plan. In the south east BASC offer a pigeon shooting day run by Peter Theobald. It gives a good insight into pigeon shooting and with the hands on theme; people have a good chance to go away with some core skills to put into practice. TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 It maybe my age as I am getting on a bit, but some times I really wonder if some people should have a shotgun. What crop is this?, is this hooded crow?, is this a ferret or a mink? are just a few question people are asking on here. Know what you are shooting at before you shoot it is the first rule of anyone shooting anything,Its no good asking what some thing is after you have shot it. Go shooting with some one who knows and get some field craft would be my advice. I totally agree, if in doubt, don't pull the trigger. But to be fair the 'what crop is this' question is legitimate as pigeons hit different crops at different times of the year. If you've just picked up a permission with only wheat on it then you won't see a pigeon for months so it's worth asking. Also the ferret/mink question was regarding an animal killed by a neighbours dog, so it wasn't a case of shoot first, ask later. All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) To a certain expent I agree with the original post! What use is it putting a picture up of something you have already shot and then asking what it is? You really ought to be able to identify your quarry BEFORE you pull the trigger - If you have not got positive target identification the safety shouldn't even get slipped off, and it might save the moderators from having to delete a post because what has been shot and photographed was illegal or out of season! We have so many people on here that fly up in arms as soon as the word "MENTOR" is mentioned by an FEO or Firearms Office but surely, for a shooter that has no fieldcraft experience whatsoever this has to ba a "reasonable" way forward! (For those that already have "fieldcraft experience" this might well be a different matter.) Bedwards1966 says in his post "There don't seem to be many people on here offering to teach people, and not everyone can let anybody onto their permission even if they'd like to. It's not that easy to learn in the field when you don't have anyone showing you the ropes. Whilst he has a very valid point when he says "Some are not allowed to take others on to their permissions" I believe that in the majority of cases he is wrong in what he says. - You only have to look at all of the posts that get put up on this forum asking for help - and the responses that they get to see that, in the majority of cases there are invites and offers of help straight away from plenty of other members. As for "asking questions" on the forum, surely that is part of what this forum is all about, trying to help and advise each other, if you don't ask how the heck are you surposed to learn? - Putting a photo of something that you have already shot and then asking someone to help identify it being one of the exceptions to this rule! Should we not be encouraging "new" or "inexperienced" members to ask questions or for help in gaining experience (And identifying quarry before it is shot) rather than faulting or rediculing them? Before anyone asks it - YES, I do offer to help quite regularly and take out "newcommers" onto my permissions (I am fortunate in the fact that the farmers who allow me onto their land have the confidence in me to not to take anyone out that I would not trust) in order to help them to gain a bit of "fieldcraft experience" and to pass on and help them learn from what little knowledge I have, as many who know me well enough will confirm! Edit: TEH put his reply up while I was typing this, hence the edit: He mentions the BASC Pigeon Shooting Days - Once again, this must be yet another great and worthwhile way forwards for gaining "basic knowledge"! Edited April 29, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Question Tis1979's, where are all the pigeons on the acres of peas at Hatfield ?, have permission to shoot and can not find one . Old, not grumpy, fairly new to pigeons, open mind, bit of arthritis, Gel. If you fancy it I'll take you out on some peas that are getting hit, not today though they might be taking shelter from this relentless rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyshooter Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 If you fancy it I'll take you out on some peas that are getting hit, not today though they might be taking shelter from this relentless rain. Yes have rain here to, but would love to take up your offer when you are able. Have been given permission to shoot over 45 acres of peas plus other crops on a farm at Hatfield I was beating on last season via a syndicate. One of the syndicate members shoots 9 farms down in Benfleet and invited me down there on several accasions, with more to come. Because of latter have purchased magnet, net, shell decays, etc. Should you be into fly fishing I would repay you with a visit to a lake I stock, and run a small syndicate of gentle men fly fishers , all free b Am free most days, just retired, keep well, Gel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Yes have rain here to, but would love to take up your offer when you are able. Have been given permission to shoot over 45 acres of peas plus other crops on a farm at Hatfield I was beating on last season via a syndicate. One of the syndicate members shoots 9 farms down in Benfleet and invited me down there on several accasions, with more to come. Because of latter have purchased magnet, net, shell decays, etc. Should you be into fly fishing I would repay you with a visit to a lake I stock, and run a small syndicate of gentle men fly fishers , all free b Am free most days, just retired, keep well, Gel. Pm me your number Gel and we'll arrange a date to go am guessing your new to shooting pigeons so maybe I can help show you a few things. As for fly fishing yes I do haven't been for a while last time was September at chigborough. All the best hope your enjoying your new retirement. I've only thirty odd years to go. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 To a certain expent I agree with the original post! What use is it putting a picture up of something you have already shot and then asking what it is? You really ought to be able to identify your quarry BEFORE you pull the trigger - If you have not got positive target identification the safety shouldn't even get slipped off, and it might save the moderators from having to delete a post because what has been shot and photographed was illegal or out of season! We have so many people on here that fly up in arms as soon as the word "MENTOR" is mentioned by an FEO or Firearms Office but surely, for a shooter that has no fieldcraft experience whatsoever this has to ba a "reasonable" way forward! (For those that already have "fieldcraft experience" this might well be a different matter.) Bedwards1966 says in his post "There don't seem to be many people on here offering to teach people, and not everyone can let anybody onto their permission even if they'd like to. It's not that easy to learn in the field when you don't have anyone showing you the ropes. Whilst he has a very valid point when he says "Some are not allowed to take others on to their permissions" I believe that in the majority of cases he is wrong in what he says. - You only have to look at all of the posts that get put up on this forum asking for help - and the responses that they get to see that, in the majority of cases there are invites and offers of help straight away from plenty of other members. As for "asking questions" on the forum, surely that is part of what this forum is all about, trying to help and advise each other, if you don't ask how the heck are you surposed to learn? - Putting a photo of something that you have already shot and then asking someone to help identify it being one of the exceptions to this rule! Should we not be encouraging "new" or "inexperienced" members to ask questions or for help in gaining experience (And identifying quarry before it is shot) rather than faulting or rediculing them? Before anyone asks it - YES, I do offer to help quite regularly and take out "newcommers" onto my permissions (I am fortunate in the fact that the farmers who allow me onto their land have the confidence in me to not to take anyone out that I would not trust) in order to help them to gain a bit of "fieldcraft experience" and to pass on and help them learn from what little knowledge I have, as many who know me well enough will confirm! Edit: TEH put his reply up while I was typing this, hence the edit: He mentions the BASC Pigeon Shooting Days - Once again, this must be yet another great and worthwhile way forwards for gaining "basic knowledge"! I think this is a good example of all our hard 2 fingerd typing!! http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/206528-pigeon-feeding-times/page__view__getnewpost TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 I think this is a good example of all our hard 2 fingerd typing!! http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/206528-pigeon-feeding-times/page__view__getnewpost TEH I'm sure it's just me being thick here but I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Could you explain what you mean for a simpleton like me please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 I'm sure it's just me being thick here but I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Could you explain what you mean for a simpleton like me please? I am sure you read the original post…… “It maybe my age as I am getting on a bit, but some times I really wonder if some people should have a shotgun. What crop is this?, is this hooded crow?, is this a ferret or a mink? are just a few question people are asking on here. Know what you are shooting at before you shoot it is the first rule of anyone shooting anything ,Its no good asking what some thing is after you have shot it. Go shooting with some one who knows and get some field craft would be my advice.” And after all the replies on that subject, this pops up……… “hi, what times of the day are pigeons feeding this time of year, and what are they eating the most. cheers “ I guess people would rather post a question that is very difficult to answer with such a varied food source over the UK. My choice would be to get in the car and study the land you are going to shoot…..watch the flight lines and make a plan. The hands on approach will produce far greater results over the keyboard method every time…….. Hence the number of replies to that particular question….. The answer is simple…..go watch! TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Fair enough TEH, it was me that was being "a bit slow on the uptake", now I understand your comment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted April 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) I am sure you read the original post…… “It maybe my age as I am getting on a bit, but some times I really wonder if some people should have a shotgun. What crop is this?, is this hooded crow?, is this a ferret or a mink? are just a few question people are asking on here. Know what you are shooting at before you shoot it is the first rule of anyone shooting anything ,Its no good asking what some thing is after you have shot it. Go shooting with some one who knows and get some field craft would be my advice.” And after all the replies on that subject, this pops up……… “hi, what times of the day are pigeons feeding this time of year, and what are they eating the most. cheers “ I guess people would rather post a question that is very difficult to answer with such a varied food source over the UK. My choice would be to get in the car and study the land you are going to shoot…..watch the flight lines and make a plan. The hands on approach will produce far greater results over the keyboard method every time…….. Hence the number of replies to that particular question….. The answer is simple…..go watch! TEH At last someone who gets what I’m trying to say from my original post. I have just spent two hrs sat in the car watching pigeons, I moved a cpl of times as I could see a few droping in the corner of a rape field. After a while I went over to where they was dropping in and about 20 or so got up. They have hit it that hard its not flowering as the rest of the field is, so me and my shooting partner will be there tomorrow. As this chap has said get out there and watch and learn some field craft. I know my spelly and grammer is not very good sorry Edited April 30, 2012 by Actionpigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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