Fac land approval problem

[Matty7247]

I have had to send extra permission letters in, unsure why? The main permission signed off on my Firearms Application? But hey ho, do what you need to do.

[wymberley]

Another quick question, when you apply for Fac you fill in the details of the land where you will shoot and contact details, as mine was rejected they said call back with details of other land.

 

I have done this but now they say I have to send permission letters into the firearms dept and my application won't go any further till I do this ... am I being mucked about or did they get it wrong yesterday ?

 

Have I got this right? In effect your 1st application has been rejected and you are applying again for a different location which is not your property but upon which you have been given permission to shoot. If that is the situation, then supplying documentary evidence of that permission is obligatory and perfectly routine.

[Frenchieboy]

Peskyfoxs - I don't know if this will help you out but if you send me a PM with your location and a contact number so I can have a chat with you. If you are not too far away from me I might be able to help you out by getting you permission to share a couple of my permissions which have all been passed for up to .270 from when I was on a "Closed Conditions" ticket - As long as you don't mind me setting a few "conditions" for shooting on my permissions - Similar to a sort of "mentoring" just to cover my own back!

Edited May 9, 2012 by Frenchieboy

[Peskyfoxs]

Peskyfoxs - I don't know if this will help you out but if you send me a PM with your location and a contact number so I can have a chat with you. If you are not too far away from me I might be able to help you out by getting you permission to share a couple of my permissions which have all been passed for up to .270 from when I was on a "Closed Conditions" ticket - As long as you don't mind me setting a few "conditions" for shooting on my permissions - Similar to a sort of "mentoring" just to cover my own back!

 

Thanks Pete, a very kind offer

[bedwards1966]

Another quick question, when you apply for Fac you fill in the details of the land where you will shoot and contact details, as mine was rejected they said call back with details of other land.

 

I have done this but now they say I have to send permission letters into the firearms dept and my application won't go any further till I do this ... am I being mucked about or did they get it wrong yesterday ?

 

I'm thinking your application wasn't refused, simply that when they wouldn't pass your land they said it can go no further until it's sorted out.

I would assume that your application is somewhere in the office waiting for something (land) before it can be continued, when they have the details it'll carry on as normal.

 

I don't think it's uncommon for them to ask for permission letters, it's proving your good reason to own firearms - otherwise someone could make up that they had permission somewhere when they didn't in order to get guns, so I can understand why they want proof. Especially as you've been told your land isn't suitable, I expect they want to be sure you aren't pretending to have permission so you can get a certificate and shoot on your rejected land. I'd just send in the permission letters and let it go on, I don't think it's unreasonable if that's all they are asking for.

[Peskyfoxs]

I'm thinking your application wasn't refused, simply that when they wouldn't pass your land they said it can go no further until it's sorted out.

I would assume that your application is somewhere in the office waiting for something (land) before it can be continued, when they have the details it'll carry on as normal.

 

I don't think it's uncommon for them to ask for permission letters, it's proving your good reason to own firearms - otherwise someone could make up that they had permission somewhere when they didn't in order to get guns, so I can understand why they want proof. Especially as you've been told your land isn't suitable, I expect they want to be sure you aren't pretending to have permission so you can get a certificate and shoot on your rejected land. I'd just send in the permission letters and let it go on, I don't think it's unreasonable if that's all they are asking for.

 

Fair enough, its only because they told me to ring back with the details of the other permnissions I have. I assumed as they call the landowner to enquire about looking around the land they would confirm I had permission to shoot there.

[DaveK]

YHPM as soon as I've written it.

 

Gents, BTW, BASC and Ian Clark have both been contacted in the background. As for the SACS number being on open forum it's available on the internet anyway so what's the problem?

[mereside]

the thing is you need to do abit of home work on your ground go back to the police and explain the lay of the land if it is flat ground whats wrong with putting in highseats this gives a safe area of shooting directly into the ground not across other fields placing seats facing away from footpaths i would suggest getting someone down who has abit of experience to guide you and then ask them to re ***** the ground with your proposals . i have a small permission on the edge of a village with houses along my boundrys but was granted 270, 300 win . this is not to gloat but to give an idea of what can be done by re ashuring the police you can do whats safe . if you have large chicken sheds put up a highseat along the gable end into a safe area of shooting to lure foxes in put in bait stations away from footpaths again in a safe area and explain what you plan on doing. if you put in for a centrfire but dont back anything up or instill confidence they will knock it back on such a small piece of ground as the bullet cant leave your permission . it is up to you to prove you can do things safely . all the best wayne ps that is a great offer from frenchy i would take him up on that and gain experience then you could get him to write up a letter explaining you are safe with rifle handling ect.

Edited May 9, 2012 by mereside

[Peskyfoxs]

I have arranged a second person with an open ticket to view the land. I'll apply with my other permissions and then discuss when I have my interview. Unless of course a second person views it and also thinks its safe where I think it is. The neighbour saying the single foitpath is heaving with walkers because he doesn't want anyone shooting deer as they feed them won't have helped.

[Peskyfoxs]

I have arranged a second person with an open ticket to view the land. I'll apply with my other permissions and then discuss when I have my interview. Unless of course a second person views it and also thinks its safe where I think it is. The neighbour saying the single foitpath is heaving with walkers because he doesn't want anyone shooting deer as they feed them won't have helped.

[mereside]

it shouldnt matter how many people are on the ground as long as you are safe. my ground in scotland has fly fisherman on the lochs all day and the only way in is through the middle of my ground i just have to be safe . people dont always stick to footpaths either . good luck wayne

[sixhills 69]

I have arranged a second person with an open ticket to view the land. I'll apply with my other permissions and then discuss when I have my interview. Unless of course a second person views it and also thinks its safe where I think it is. The neighbour saying the single foitpath is heaving with walkers because he doesn't want anyone shooting deer as they feed them won't have helped.

Ok you neighbour is being a bit on the tight side if it is your property then on your interview explain all this to the FEO and explain that it is effecting your buissnes as the land is seprated it is not classed as on shoot so they look at each one inderviduly.

Does your house look over the chickens and the other foul.

Also try having a quite and freindly word with the person that is saying these things and explainto him that you also enjoy seeing the deer and as they are causing no problems they will not be classed as quary.

Just an idea

[Peskyfoxs]

My house is bascially on the paddock where my birds are, there is a road at 2 sides which may stop shooting down from the house being a possibility (house bottom left)

[CharlieT]

In fairness, looking at the matter from the FEO's perspective, he must ere on the side of caution when assessing land. Remember that land is always and only passed with novice shooters in mind.

 

Looking at your last photo it would be a very brave and some may say foolhardy feo to pass such land as suitable for a complete novice.

[Peskyfoxs]

I didn't expect this bit to be passed as the rise in the woods is quite gradual (the road is above the field)

Edited May 10, 2012 by Peskyfoxs

[Catweazle]

I didn't expect this bit to be passed as the rise in the woods is quite gradual (the road is above the field)

 

That's a shotgun job.

[wymberley]

I'm thinking

 

Eh? I'm sorry, but are you absolutely certain of that?

[sixhills 69]

I would get all your land together OS maps checked for public foot paths/bridelways i would then make an appointment for your FEO to come and visit you during the day and ask him to walk the land wth you lots of FEO's work out of the office now and use google earth to check land. If you can get him out and prove to him that you are fully aware of you saftey points backsops ect.

 

I can not rember if it was on this thread i read that an FEO had said they do not have to check land if that is correct how can they say that it is land deemed suitable by the chief constable??

 

I can understand looking at the roads around your house being an issue and the FEO thinking a novice shooter so you need to put the thinking cap on and put yourself in his boots and then ask him the questions.

[David BASC]

I agree with sixhills,

 

There is clear guidance from the Home Office to the police about land checks fro new applicants, and where ever possible the applicant should be with the FEO when they check the land. The main criteria that they will look at are:

 

a) Presence of rights of way, public roads and

footpaths and their frequency of use;

B) Proximity of dwellings;

c) Suitable backstops relevant to the firearm

to be used (not so important with a shot

gun unless using section 1 ammunition);

d) General topography of the land; and

e) Presence of any quarry species on the land

 

David

Edited May 10, 2012 by David BASC

[malkiserow]

I agree with sixhills,

 

There is clear guidance from the Home Office to the police about land checks fro new applicants, and where ever possible the applicant should be with the FEO when they check the land. The main criteria that they will look at are:

 

a) Presence of rights of way, public roads and

footpaths and their frequency of use;

B) Proximity of dwellings;

c) Suitable backstops relevant to the firearm

to be used (not so important with a shot

gun unless using section 1 ammunition);

d) General topography of the land; and

e) Presence of any quarry species on the land

 

David

 

 

When I've done a land check, the key issue was the shooters knowledge of all the above and to highlight safe and unsafe shooting areas/angles etc.

[CharlieT]

When I've done a land check, the key issue was the shooters knowledge of all the above and to highlight safe and unsafe shooting areas/angles etc.

 

Just playing devils advocate.......

We must remember though that once passed any newby can shoot the ground without a further check and one new shooters knowledge will be different to another.

[stubby]

all this trouble you've had, from reading your first post, I think is down to one simple thing, you mentioned other FAC open ticket holders, do they still shoot the land?

a permission near to me, charges a "yearly membership" to shoot shotguns, with a few fac's too, our local fao wont allow any other fac's on the land, because of safety to each other, nothing to do with the land, imagine 10 shooters all lamping in one area, little dangerous.

 

I reckon its the same with your spot, others may already have it as "their land" on fac certs, irrelivent of wether they shoot it anymore or not, the fac unit would have records of this,

 

your far better off keeping this permission for air rifle/shotgun (short term,keep in with farmer) apply for and get your FAC for somewhere else, then apply to get it opened in a years time or so, giving you the option to shoot this permission,

although most will say 5yrs before an open ticket, if you can show good reason, you'll get it opened,

[Peskyfoxs]

When I've done a land check, the key issue was the shooters knowledge of all the above and to highlight safe and unsafe shooting areas/angles etc.

 

I spoke to the officer and stayed in for the bank holiday Monday as he said he would call me to walk round with him. I will await a 2nd opinion on the land and go from there.

[Peskyfoxs]

al

I reckon its the same with your spot, others may already have it as "their land" on fac certs, irrelivent of wether they shoot it anymore or not, the fac unit would have records of this,

 

your far better off keeping this permission for air rifle/shotgun (short term,keep in with farmer) apply for and get your FAC for somewhere else, then apply to get it opened in a years time or so, giving you the option to shoot this permission,

although most will say 5yrs before an open ticket, if you can show good reason, you'll get it opened,

 

I live on the farm, only I have permission to shoot on it, the open ticket holders have been there on my invition, only when I have invited them.

[sixhills 69]

When I've done a land check, the key issue was the shooters knowledge of all the above and to highlight safe and unsafe shooting areas/angles etc.

 

If you do your home work and look at the land using the information members have given you i feel you could have a good chance its down to you like you say its your land and you have given permission to open ticket holders to control your vermin like one member said think about using high trees to make high seats shooting from your bedroom window must give a good angle down no better back stop than the ground.