changing from full length to neck sizing

[aister]

if i change from full length sizing to just neck sizing will this affect the load i am using?

[Vince Green]

no

[Browning]

Possibly, if your neck tension changes.

 

Are you using a full length bushing die? And will you be using the same bushing in your neck sizing die?

[kent]

if i change from full length sizing to just neck sizing will this affect the load i am using?

 

not unless the neck tention changes as mentioned. IN all honesty although i was once a big beliver in neck sizing bottle necked cases (those that headspace on the shoulder)its a total myth that it creates a better round. Set up correctly full length is better IMO but the case should be sized just enough to ease bolt tention by feel. A set of competition shell holders make the proceedure a breeze BTW

[aister]

thanks for you replies. the dies i am using at the momment is the lee pacesetter dies and i am getting great results. the 2 reasons i thought to change to neck sizeing was, faster due to no lubing and trimming and also less stress on the brass. i was thinking that the only thing to throw it would be the neck tension and to overcome it would be to try and not put too much preassure on with the collet die and just use the lee factory crimp die that i have always used to give the same neck tension as before . and again any thoughts appreciated

[crazyfrog]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but this could the poster as well, my question is which neck or full length dies would you recommend for .223 and .308 calibres and could you point me in the right direction, I have a RCBS press thanks

[bk]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but this could the poster as well, my question is which neck or full length dies would you recommend for .223 and .308 calibres and could you point me in the right direction, I have a RCBS press thanks

 

Redding Match.

Type S neck die, body die and Comp seater.

Very good indeed!

[barrelsniffer]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but this could the poster as well, my question is which neck or full length dies would you recommend for .223 and .308 calibres and could you point me in the right direction, I have a RCBS press thanks

 

 

As BK says you can't beat Redding Dies.

[Dougy]

Is it not true that unless you neck turn inside and out using a bushing die wont give consistant neck tension.And actually have an adverse affect.

[kent]

thanks for you replies. the dies i am using at the momment is the lee pacesetter dies and i am getting great results. the 2 reasons i thought to change to neck sizeing was, faster due to no lubing and trimming and also less stress on the brass. i was thinking that the only thing to throw it would be the neck tension and to overcome it would be to try and not put too much preassure on with the collet die and just use the lee factory crimp die that i have always used to give the same neck tension as before . and again any thoughts appreciated

 

1. i should lube very lightly or risk stuck cases even neck sizing (certain neck bushes require no lube due the materials used)

 

2. you will still need to check the length and trim as required

 

3. sooner or later you will have to push that shoulder back to chamber a round, bumping it each time fixes this

[kent]

Is it not true that unless you neck turn inside and out using a bushing die wont give consistant neck tension.And actually have an adverse affect.

 

you cannot say "an adverse effect" as all a neck bushing does is replace the one size fits all fixed neck sizer. if you neck turn correctly via using and expander prior any extra metal is on the case OD there is no need to evenly ream necks on the ID. Most people cannot neck turn well enough for what you say to make a jot of difference, indeed in a factory chambered rifle i think neck turning to even necks is a total waste of time - you will do far better using good brass and exepting any slight variances that occur and working on the stuff that realy matters. Tight chambered custom cut chambers need neck turning to individual spec though and these are not the best thing to use in the field, due to that very lack of tollerance.

 

selecting the best bushing isnt as an exact science as you might at first think although it takes into account the brass you are using via measuring a loaded round on the OD when seated different brass has different amounts of memory and with use this will change and even each individual peice in a batch will vary. Personally i work it out and purchase one smaller and one larger bushing so i have three bushes to try.

 

The more in depth you go with your handloads the more you can depart from the basic principles that makes a good round (consistancy) by the very fact you are adding processes

[Redgum]

From my experience neck sizing can and may make a differance to accuracy, what it will definetly do is increase case life. With my 243 reloads neck sizing is more accurate, this is comparing a Redding full length size die against a lee collet neck sizing die. The lee die squeezes the case against a mandrel and has been proven to give very little run out. With 308 I had better results with full Length over neck sizing, that was until I got a few spare mandrels for my lee 308 collet neck sizing die and played around with reduced diameters. I find that once a case is fire formed I neck size five times and then full size once and then back to necksizing. I find this is the best method for me as it seems the cases start to get a bit tight around 6/7 reloads. I'm finding my cases last well over ten times and usual problem is over application of lube can dent the necks, but shoot out ok. I also have a straightened out paper clip that is bent at 90degrees at one end slightly to check for base seperation, but so far have not had a problem.

The most important thing you can do with your reloading is to be consistant,it will be much better to have a reasonably accurate load that does it time and time again than loads that shoot little ragged holes one day and shotgun patterns the next.

[aister]

thanks for all your help and info. i loaded up some rounds last night to try out the collet die and heres how i got on tonight.

 

i loaded 5 the exact way i have been doing with the full lenghth sizer.

and i loaded 5 with the collet die, with this 5 the only thing i did was clean the primer pocket.

and i loaded 5 with the collet die, with this 5 i cleaned the primer pocket, chamfered the case neck inside and out and cleaned the brass with steel wool.

 

the first 5 was the same as before 3/8" @100.

second 5 was the same 3/8" @100.

the last 5 gave me a group i couldnt measure, it was under 1/4".

 

i loaded 5 more rounds the same as the last lot and got 1 1/8" group at 250 yards.

 

could chamfering the case neck and cleaning the brass have tightened up the group or has it just been a happening?

 

hope this all makes sense , still fairly new to reloading, a few of you are using word and phrases i havent heard before :lol:

[kent]

From my experience neck sizing can and may make a differance to accuracy, what it will definetly do is increase case life. With my 243 reloads neck sizing is more accurate, this is comparing a Redding full length size die against a lee collet neck sizing die. The lee die squeezes the case against a mandrel and has been proven to give very little run out. With 308 I had better results with full Length over neck sizing, that was until I got a few spare mandrels for my lee 308 collet neck sizing die and played around with reduced diameters. I find that once a case is fire formed I neck size five times and then full size once and then back to necksizing. I find this is the best method for me as it seems the cases start to get a bit tight around 6/7 reloads. I'm finding my cases last well over ten times and usual problem is over application of lube can dent the necks, but shoot out ok. I also have a straightened out paper clip that is bent at 90degrees at one end slightly to check for base seperation, but so far have not had a problem.

The most important thing you can do with your reloading is to be consistant,it will be much better to have a reasonably accurate load that does it time and time again than loads that shoot little ragged holes one day and shotgun patterns the next.

 

I might suggest that the better consentricity is responsible for this. bumping the shoulder just enough (sizing to feel of the bolt will not shorten brass life, the necks will split and primer pockets enlarge first. Oversizing the shoulder of brass will trash it real quick though. Consenricity (run out of true) is very important in any rifle and needs to be .002" or less idealy

[kent]

thanks for all your help and info. i loaded up some rounds last night to try out the collet die and heres how i got on tonight.

 

i loaded 5 the exact way i have been doing with the full lenghth sizer.

and i loaded 5 with the collet die, with this 5 the only thing i did was clean the primer pocket.

and i loaded 5 with the collet die, with this 5 i cleaned the primer pocket, chamfered the case neck inside and out and cleaned the brass with steel wool.

 

the first 5 was the same as before 3/8" @100.

second 5 was the same 3/8" @100.

the last 5 gave me a group i couldnt measure, it was under 1/4".

 

i loaded 5 more rounds the same as the last lot and got 1 1/8" group at 250 yards.

 

could chamfering the case neck and cleaning the brass have tightened up the group or has it just been a happening?

 

hope this all makes sense , still fairly new to reloading, a few of you are using word and phrases i havent heard before :lol:

 

 

Said it before but most half decent rounds shoot at 100yds, testing at such a range is pretty much a waste of time, i have seen visibly different powder loads inside a case bug hole at 100! now you think you have the best round at 250yds load 30 or so and put them to one side and try other variables with different "best loads" on the right day test them side by side then you will realy know and run them over the chronograph to look for consistancy via standard deviation. Something as simple as just switching primer can make a difference, try different brass prep etc. The trick is only one variable per batch that way you know if it made a difference

[aister]

Said it before but most half decent rounds shoot at 100yds, testing at such a range is pretty much a waste of time, i have seen visibly different powder loads inside a case bug hole at 100! now you think you have the best round at 250yds load 30 or so and put them to one side and try other variables with different "best loads" on the right day test them side by side then you will realy know and run them over the chronograph to look for consistancy via standard deviation. Something as simple as just switching primer can make a difference, try different brass prep etc. The trick is only one variable per batch that way you know if it made a difference

 

 

thanks kent, will give that a go

[coyotemaster]

Chris the fellows have covered it very well, the only thing I might add is that I neck size only for all my rifles and anneal the necks after every 3-4 firngs to keep neck tension the same. Easy to do with a propane torch and pan of water. I heat the neck just enough to see a color change then drop it in the water.

[Redgum]

What type of propane torch do you use and do you heat them in a shallow pan of water and push em over when they have reached the correct temp. I crimp my cases once bullets have been seated and I think this probably helps with uniform neck tension but want to try annealling.

[coyotemaster]

What type of propane torch do you use and do you heat them in a shallow pan of water and push em over when they have reached the correct temp. I crimp my cases once bullets have been seated and I think this probably helps with uniform neck tension but want to try annealling.

 

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