Dekers Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 yes they realy do, its made worse by shooting hot loads or lighter/faster bullets. Quite simply look how much powder a 6mm BR takes for equivenlent weight bullets and the spped it pushes them. 1500 is about the exepted average life but could be under 1000 or up to 2000 depending on how its shot, what its shooting and the metalurgy of the steel. A target shooter might well shoot 1000 or more a season. I am not speaking from heresay here i have put more than a few .243 bullets downrange and have a nearly worn out barrel in my own .243. The other view... Put a light round and hot load through ANY rifle and fire it until the barrel glows and you will reduce the barrel life. The .243 was not developed as a target round, although it is very capable, use it as a sensible field tool and barrel life is not an issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 In terms of burning out if you were firing without remission how to automatic rifles not burn out in the same way? Automatic rifles and machine gun barrels do burn out at an alarming rate . Spare barrels are kept with machine guns and are normally very easy to change in the fields . A good crew can change a barrel in seconds . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Guntrader has 3104 rifles listed. Not a single gun listed in .240. CF 473 in .243, 241 in .308 and 66 6.5X55's. Get what you fancy. I quite like guns that overlap, so wouldn't go for the very bottom end in terms of deer legal calibres. I agonised over this and went for a 6.5X55 and a .308 for deer. I also have a 22-250. The 6.5X55 Sweed is a sweet calibre, being easy to shoot and accurate. I could live without the .308 and 22-250 if I had to keep just one of the three. The other issue some people have is getting a 100gr bullet to stabilise in a .243 making it illegal for larger deer in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Guntrader has 3104 rifles listed. Not a single gun listed in .240. I don't think anyone is arguing with that, but the Law says .240, in practise that will almost always end up as a .243., but a .243 is NOT the minimum deer legal calibre, .240 is, whether or not you can find one has no bearing on the law! CF 473 in .243, 241 in .308 and 66 6.5X55's. Get what you fancy. I quite like guns that overlap, so wouldn't go for the very bottom end in terms of deer legal calibres. I agonised over this and went for a 6.5X55 and a .308 for deer. I also have a 22-250. The 6.5X55 Sweed is a sweet calibre, being easy to shoot and accurate. I could live without the .308 and 22-250 if I had to keep just one of the three. The other issue some people have is getting a 100gr bullet to stabilise in a .243 making it illegal for larger deer in Scotland. for clarification a 100g bullet is legal in Scotland whether it is stable or not, less than 100g isn't. How accurate do you need to be, not very if you look as the DSC shooting criteria! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 The other issue some people have is getting a 100gr bullet to stabilise in a .243 making it illegal for larger deer in Scotland. That's a new one on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fib new Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 If you do a lot of foxing and a little deer I think the 243 is what you want. If it's the other way round a 308 is an option -but there are a lot of other calls in that class that can do the job. If it's about 50/50 a 6,5x55 is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 From your description of use get a .243 there are bucket loads of reasons why. Simply you will have the largest availability of guns and ammunition to choose from. Every dealer stocks them and a range of bullets, you don't say you are going to sit on the range which is really the only reason not to. You state mostly foxes and occasional deer and really the .243 is one of the best foxing calibers out there, I use 85 grain soft points through mine and they shoot everything you could want. Awesomely accurate and drop everything from foxes to fallow no problems, you'll hear them slated from carcass damage on one hand and then ineffective on the larger deer to me those statements don't fit very well together. From the fox perspective once you start talking guns that use heavy bullets and drive them slowly thats not the ideal combination on something you could be shooting at a reasonable range getting loopy trajectory wise just isn't ideal. If I had the pockets to be shooting red or Sika stags every weekend then I'd opt for something larger but for anything I can find its definitely enough gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Now - Kent, not like you to be pedantic! - but the .240 equates to 6.095mm - which is why all the 6mm's are Deer legal (Providing they use a suitable bullet weight and develop sufficient FPS and FT LBs) Maybe that is why my 6mm is also listed as a .240 on my ticket? likewise for ammo purchase! FACT is that THE LAW and not Pigeon watch members STATE that the minimum calibre is .240. There is no debate - it is FACT! Ok name the other all deer legal 6mm cals under the .243". The BR aint it cant make the energy requirements with a 100 grn bullet. There realy is no "off the shelf" all deer legal calibre less than .243 win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 From your description of use get a .243 there are bucket loads of reasons why. Simply you will have the largest availability of guns and ammunition to choose from. Every dealer stocks them and a range of bullets, you don't say you are going to sit on the range which is really the only reason not to. You state mostly foxes and occasional deer and really the .243 is one of the best foxing calibers out there, I use 85 grain soft points through mine and they shoot everything you could want. Awesomely accurate and drop everything from foxes to fallow no problems, you'll hear them slated from carcass damage on one hand and then ineffective on the larger deer to me those statements don't fit very well together. From the fox perspective once you start talking guns that use heavy bullets and drive them slowly thats not the ideal combination on something you could be shooting at a reasonable range getting loopy trajectory wise just isn't ideal. If I had the pockets to be shooting red or Sika stags every weekend then I'd opt for something larger but for anything I can find its definitely enough gun To explain why people make those remarks and why they actually do sit perfectly together. The .243 is often used with the wrong bullet The carcass damage is generally badly blood shot meat effectively ruining the oposite shoulder through turning it into a bloody / snotty mess- through using too fast and frangible a bullet. this can be almost entirely overcome via carefull selection of the correctly constucted bullet for the task at hand. If the bullet is so light, frangible and fast and connects with say the shoulder of a big wet muddy stag there is a real chance it might not get through into the chest cavity and this can lead to horrific wounding- reducing the range will actually make wounding more common rather than less common under these circumstances due to the higher impract velocity. So here we have woundings and meat damage sitting side by side- though only by some fool thinking he has a one load solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Guntrader has 3104 rifles listed. Not a single gun listed in .240. CF 473 in .243, 241 in .308 and 66 6.5X55's. Get what you fancy. I quite like guns that overlap, so wouldn't go for the very bottom end in terms of deer legal calibres. I agonised over this and went for a 6.5X55 and a .308 for deer. I also have a 22-250. The 6.5X55 Sweed is a sweet calibre, being easy to shoot and accurate. I could live without the .308 and 22-250 if I had to keep just one of the three. The other issue some people have is getting a 100gr bullet to stabilise in a .243 making it illegal for larger deer in Scotland. most factory .243 win rifles will stabilise a 100 grn bullet no issues. When you get onto partitions you can get decreased presision but mosly very, very suitable for use sub 200yds if your chest shooting Effective and legal are different things! And.....................? lets not start "you can kill a cow with a rimfire again" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 back on form after your rest and only reading what you want into a post again I see Kent. There are very definitely one load solutions as certainly the 85 soft points I use which are hardly light or easily fragmented work well on everything. I thought they may not be ideal on foxes but actually I prefer them to Vmax, you know the fox will have a hole in one side and one out the other and they seem to expand well. Having shot munties, roe and fallow with them I'm yet to find any issues. All have had entry and exit woulds and enough damage to drop on the spot. Foxes I've witnessed a few now shot with 55's that needed a second bullet to be fairly sure I don't need to go that light. I know I could go up to 95 on everything but really I've a load and bullet I can shoot everything here with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 The other view... Put a light round and hot load through ANY rifle and fire it until the barrel glows and you will reduce the barrel life. The .243 was not developed as a target round, although it is very capable, use it as a sensible field tool and barrel life is not an issue! Yes it will, but 44 grns of powder and a 55 grn pill is pretty darn hot and fast, . Although not generally thought of as a target round its been a top choice in Sniper tactical matches due to its lack of recoil, flat trajectory and great choice of 6mm bullets (to do the f-class rounds you will need a new barrel before the end of season finals though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Yes it will, but 44 grns of powder and a 55 grn pill is pretty darn hot and fast yep, makes you wonder why so many shout so loud about the 22-250? , . Although not generally thought of as a target round its been a top choice in Sniper tactical matches due to its lack of recoil, flat trajectory and great choice of 6mm bullets (to do the f-class rounds you will need a new barrel before the end of season finals though) I am very well aware of the Capabilities of the .243, that is why I never cease to be amazed at those who can't manage to bring down a deer with it. I am also very well aware that many target shooters are lucky to see a season through with the same barrel of many calibres! I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 1000 yard world record held by a .243 a year or two or three back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alendil Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 so .243 its best choice for me is better to go for new rifle or used. how to check barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I am very well aware of the Capabilities of the .243, that is why I never cease to be amazed at those who can't manage to bring down a deer with it. I am also very well aware that many target shooters are lucky to see a season through with the same barrel of many calibres! I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 1000 yard world record held by a .243 a year or two or three back! Peter Jackson held the UK 1000yd record shooting a .243 ai at diggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 back on form after your rest and only reading what you want into a post again I see Kent. There are very definitely one load solutions as certainly the 85 soft points I use which are hardly light or easily fragmented work well on everything. I thought they may not be ideal on foxes but actually I prefer them to Vmax, you know the fox will have a hole in one side and one out the other and they seem to expand well. Having shot munties, roe and fallow with them I'm yet to find any issues. All have had entry and exit woulds and enough damage to drop on the spot. Foxes I've witnessed a few now shot with 55's that needed a second bullet to be fairly sure I don't need to go that light. I know I could go up to 95 on everything but really I've a load and bullet I can shoot everything here with. Oh, how i missed our little chats. Anyhow wait till you have been at the Deer a while with your new shiney gun. Lord knows how many deer i have shot with .243 rifles, but its a fair old amount and let me say there is a heck of a lot to be said for two loads. my favourtite Roe and fox bullet in .243 is the solid base "hunting" 95grn Nosler B/tip, i used the 87 grn Hornady softpoint for quite a while on both but meat damage was too great to carry on. I cannot say i have ever found a realy great Fox round that was truely sound on larger Deer, so when faced with the need to deal with charlie with the wrong rounds in the mag i tend to brain shoot after drilling a few (they go down, wait a couple of seconds- get up then leg it to bleed out slowly in inconvienient places). Of course you could also high neck shoot all your deer with varmint bullets but it comes with some serious drawbacks also at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Lord knows how many deer i have shot with .243 rifles, but its a fair old amount and let me say there is a heck of a lot to be said for two loads. my favourtite Roe and fox bullet in .243 is the solid base "hunting" 95grn Nosler B/tip, i used the 87 grn Hornady softpoint for quite a while on both but meat damage was too great to carry on. Obviously no good in Scotland where you need a minimum of 100gr bullet for the larger deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Obviously no good in Scotland where you need a minimum of 100gr bullet for the larger deer. But perfectly acceptable given that it was only roe and foxes that were mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Same old rants from the same old people and the poor lad just wanted some basic advice. The 243 is an ideal calibre for both fox and deer with a wide choice of rifles from budget to top shelf. The 223 is ideal for fox and maybe munties and you only really need to step up to 308 for the larger deer species and wild boar. If I could only have one rifle out of the three it would be the 308 because its just such a lovely calibre but then I shoot mainly deer and though it doesnt mangle Munties I tend to use the 243 for them. There is alot of hype about the barrel life of a 243, alot of gas up a small hole isnt ideal and a 308 will last longer,if looked after of course. A bucket load of fast powder behind a small bullet is the main problem here, if you stick to a heavier bullet it will be using less and slower powders. If you go for heavier bullets, dont fry the barrel when zeroing and look after the rifle it will be good for 2000rnds plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Loads of good advice here, barrel life is a mute point really when one considers the average user at some point will leave a wet rifle in it's slip all night or longer even! I lost count of the rifles I have seen with pitting near the muzzle from dropplets of water left in there! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Loads of good advice here, barrel life is a mute point really when one considers the average user at some point will leave a wet rifle in it's slip all night or longer even! I lost count of the rifles I have seen with pitting near the muzzle from dropplets of water left in there! U. yep your totally right there, more rifles are ruined due to neglect than are ever 'shot out'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 so .243 its best choice for me is better to go for new rifle or used. how to check barrel New if you can but otherwise you rely on a gunsmiths opinion of a second hand one. If you have a look on gun trader you can get them new for not much more than £500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Obviously no good in Scotland where you need a minimum of 100gr bullet for the larger deer. Just fine for larger ROE like mentioned in my text (the best duel roe +fox bullet) i dont believe there is an ideal large deer and fox bullet as such its better to pick your shots. if you look at the cavity width and weight its too hard to balance the expantion rate. Even between a large dog fox and a small adult roe doe theres a substantial difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Same old rants from the same old people and the poor lad just wanted some basic advice. The 243 is an ideal calibre for both fox and deer with a wide choice of rifles from budget to top shelf. The 223 is ideal for fox and maybe munties and you only really need to step up to 308 for the larger deer species and wild boar. If I could only have one rifle out of the three it would be the 308 because its just such a lovely calibre but then I shoot mainly deer and though it doesnt mangle Munties I tend to use the 243 for them. There is alot of hype about the barrel life of a 243, alot of gas up a small hole isnt ideal and a 308 will last longer,if looked after of course. A bucket load of fast powder behind a small bullet is the main problem here, if you stick to a heavier bullet it will be using less and slower powders. If you go for heavier bullets, dont fry the barrel when zeroing and look after the rifle it will be good for 2000rnds plus. Barrel round count is subjective and i agree that you will get more out of the 100 grn run slower but care needs to be taken that the energy requirements are met, which means pretty much a full on loading. 2000 + does seem a lot more than i might expect though its more than a lifetime shooting for many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 New if you can but otherwise you rely on a gunsmiths opinion of a second hand one. If you have a look on gun trader you can get them new for not much more than £500 Its always nice to have a new gun but everything is relative as I have recently found out. I had to flog my trusty Remmie 700,great gun but got less than half the original cost. There are stacks of 243's out there that have been bought,fired 100 rnds or so and once the reality that deer stalking isnt that easy and is pretty messy have been trading back in. There are almost as many 243's for sale on guntrader as .22lrs. If you arent confident in buying a secondhand gun privatley then buy secondhand from a dealer. You get what you pay for and this applies to both new and secondhand rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.