Jmgrain Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hi, I am after picking your brains, I have seen a very nice wildfowler 12g with 3" chambers, barrels 32", chokes...full-full, the add says High gun or Wildfowler, would this be ok for pigeon etc. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hi, I am after picking your brains, I have seen a very nice wildfowler 12g with 3" chambers, barrels 32", chokes...full-full, the add says High gun or Wildfowler, would this be ok for pigeon etc. john It would certainly fetch those high ones down with full and full chokes if you were flighting them or roost shooting. A bit overgunned for decoying I would have thought when the target is much closer and rapid handling and quick pointing are more important then range. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Although they made dozens of different models over a long period of time and your gun could be any one of them, the fact that it has a 3" chamber puts it well into the 20th century and it may well be one of the Empire series. The only issues with it, apart from condition, is that with 32" tubes it will weigh a good 8lbs and will be a little clumsy in a hide when decoying, not to mention seriously over choked for the closer stuff. I used to own a 32" 3"chambered Greener Empire, it was great for shore shooting but entirely the wrong gun for pigeon shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) As to it being a "wildfowler" I would be a bit dubious about that these days given the age of the gun and the fact it would have to be used with steel shot now. But a cracking gun probably and great for pigeons if a bit heavy. Full choke is not really a problem although a bit tight for decoyed pigeons. remember most single barrel guns ever made had full chokes. Edited July 7, 2012 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmgrain Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Thanks for that, I think I will pass on that gun...very nice though. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiv42 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Guys, Yes gun would be far too much for pigeon shooting, its a complete cannon. Took it out clay busting last week, a few odd stares but lots of oooohhhhhhhhhh can I have a go. May put a link to youtube next time I take it out! More suited to punt/forshore/highgun. Not sure about steel shot, gun was made in 1955, I will have to check the proofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Nice as it is, another reason for walking away from it which I have just remembered is that, for some reason, they were made with rather odd quarter sized ejectors which, after a bit of wear or with modern plastic cases (the chamber was bored for paper cases) frequently over rode the cartridge head which was incurable in the field. With a manufacture date of about 1955 it would be about the same vintage as mine was. It was actually made by Webley and Scott and would be amongst the last they built. It would also only be proofed, under the old system for 3 1/2 tons or 1 1/2 ounces of shot, the 4 ton proof 3inch "magnum" cartridge containing 1 3/4+ ounces not having been invented at that time. It would not be especially suitable for any of the exotic non toxic shot materials and especially not for steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiv42 Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Nice as it is, another reason for walking away from it which I have just remembered is that, for some reason, they were made with rather odd quarter sized ejectors which, after a bit of wear or with modern plastic cases (the chamber was bored for paper cases) frequently over rode the cartridge head which was incurable in the field. With a manufacture date of about 1955 it would be about the same vintage as mine was. It was actually made by Webley and Scott and would be amongst the last they built. It would also only be proofed, under the old system for 3 1/2 tons or 1 1/2 ounces of shot, the 4 ton proof 3inch "magnum" cartridge containing 1 3/4+ ounces not having been invented at that time. It would not be especially suitable for any of the exotic non toxic shot materials and especially not for steel. Gents, if people are going to put info up please ensure its accurate, Webley and Scott bought Greeners in 1965, gun was made in 1955. Edited July 18, 2012 by Kiv42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiv42 Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Gents, if people are going to put info up please ensure its accurate, Webley and Scott bought Greeners in 1965 and ceased in 1985, W&S did make/assemble the gun,from 1965 to 1971 both ejector and non ejector model.This weapon was made in 1955. No ejectors on this individual gun only lifters. Magnum for Shotguns With shotguns the term "magnum" refers to shells containing more shot and powder than standard shells. A 12-gauge 2 3/4-inch magnum shell, for example, will normally contain 1/4 to 1/2 ounces more shot than a standard shell of the same size and gauge. Magnum shells are often longer than standard shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Absolutely agree about factual accuracy. Webley and Scott may well have bought the name of the, by then seriously ailing, firm of W.W.Greener in 1965 but by 1967 Greener had ceased to trade. Its employees were laid off and the manufactury premises were demolished a short while later. Unfortunately it does not alter the fact that, although it bears the name Greener it was actually built by Webley and Scott who were by then one of, if not the only remaining, volume producer of guns in the British gun trade, in 1955. I`m assuming it was a Greener Empire which, indeed, it may not be. The earlier dated models which may indeed have been built by Greener featured the Greener trademark side safety. If it has a top safety and dates from the mid fifties then its a Webley made to a special design and order subsequently and retailed by Greener. Not quite sure what you meant about the magnum cartridge. Can you elaborate? Edited July 18, 2012 by mudpatten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Is it 3 inch black powder proof also with 2.3/3 nitro proof like many of these were? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Another example of the name on the gun being as likely to be that of a retailer as a manufacturer. We are still seeing shotguns with good old British names but sadly no longer made in Birmingham. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Vector Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Mudpatten I think you have got a bit muddled up. I've got an Empire (the so-called "Deluxe" model) that was built in 1956 and it was definately made by W. W. Greener - Graham Greener himself has confirmed this and the serial number correlates with the Greener records published in Nigel Brown's book. Some of them definately were finished by Webley; you have to go by serial number not necessarily build date. It's all explained in Graham Greener's book the "The Greener Story" which is useful source of reference. Good tool though. Mechanically so simple, just big and heavy but you're never going to break or wear it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Thank you for that information. I stand partially corrected. Might I ask where the safety catch on yours is? I`m led to believe that all the side safety were Greener made whilst the top safety were W. and S. Perhaps if the originator could supply the serial number we`ll all be much wiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Vector Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 What safety catch? It's a hammer gun... Only joking, it's got the manual side safety. This is the only thing I don't like about it having auto safeties on everything else, need be very careful. I'll dig out the Greener Vs Webley production data when I get home tonight. Having a sneaky surf at work just now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Thanks very much for that. I await the result with interest. Although I sold mine many years ago it was cased and had the original red Greener label which would have been tied to the trigger guard when displayed on the gunshop rack. It gives the full specification of the gun along with the serial number. If I can find it, might you be able to tell me by whom it was made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBS Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Opportunity for gratuitous Greener pics.... (Malkiserow you may recognise this...) GBS W W Greener "Far killer" 3" Chamber - 30" Barrels, chuffing heavy and tightly choked but handles well for a big boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiv42 Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hi Guys, Safety is on side, so its a Greener, 77891, Nice letter from Graham giving provenence. Greener Story is a good factual account. I have a dog eared copy. Some confusion over Empire model production ceasing, in GG's book he writes 1967. But go to page 204 reads that Webley were making them (or finishing them off?) 65 to 71. Ref Magnum loads, forgive me if I am incorrect , but from reading views on this thread only , I may have it wrng , but person only think magnum, loads are in 3". You can get a 65mm 2 3/4 magnum load. Anywho... if any one wants a try out the cannon I am in Derbyshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Vector Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Mudpatten, yes if you have the serial number you can determine if was fully of Greener manufacture or finished by Webley. Graham Greener's book has a full list of the Empire models that were finished by Webley (page 153). I have it open on my desk right now. The numbers are not sequential so some later numbers will be Greener and some earlier ones Webley. These guns were amongst the Greener stock taken on by Webley in 1965 when they purchased the company. Same book (page 200/201) also lists the date of manufacture against serial numbers for the Greener Empire guns. Greener's book is well worth getting hold of if you have an interest in British gun making history or if you have a specific interest in Greener guns. Here's my lump of an Empire. Cased, Fully engraved action, retains most of it's colour, nicely figured stock and hasn't seen a great deal of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBS Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 And an 1894 non-ejector..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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