BBC1 COUNTRYFILE

[hutchie the white hunter]

So do men with guns.

WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT I THINK YOU ARE ON THE WRONG FORUM :unsure:

[hutchie the white hunter]

W I wouldn't say we are overrun with kites up here - buzzards, yes ...but kites - not yet...

 

Just my opinion, and I have to say I personally have never seen a lite take a poult , again a buzzard, yes (anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves) but if I have never seen a kite take a poult up here then it can't be that regular an occourance...

 

I can't commont on the rest of the uk, only the area I am in...

 

Regards,

Gixer

That is a fair point ,what im getting at is that it willnot be long if they do build up numbers year after year

[hutchie the white hunter]

Its an interesting one and when you are in an area with plenty then the impact they have on other wildlife is pretty pronounced, watch a kite or buzzard on stubble and everything else heads for cover, where I think they do damage on our ground is to grey partridges and leverets particularly the buzzards. Seeing a few is indeed nice but when you look round on a sunny day and can count 20 working the thermals about you do realise there are a few about. Drive down the M40 from Oxford to the M25 and you will be staggered how many you see, as for Polestar trail cams round release pens there is one failing in your logic, they get tripped all the time by the pheasants which are about. We can't even check for foxes about unless we like wading through thousands of pictures of poults

and more and more are getting put into the wild year after year how is this right

[Robl]

I’ve been reading this with interest as it’s not a subject I know a great deal about.

 

But I do have one comment.

Posting is caps like that doesn’t do much to further your cause or present your case, it just looks like the angry ranting of a child.

Perhaps we just have different interpretations of internet etiquette, but I see caps like that as angry shouting rather than any attempt at trying to make a reasoned point.

 

Anyhow.

How much damage to the red kites do?

Is it comparable to a couple of new pet cats in the area?

A couple of poachers?

Would a few red kites increase the stock shrinkage by 10 birds a month or 10 birds a day?

What’s the real financial cost of that?

 

If you could quantify the damage then perhaps there would be some way to claim it back from the people releasing the birds, or perhaps at least account or plan for it?

[hutchie the white hunter]

Ive stayed out of this until now but I thought it was a very good programme.

 

I hope that one day the native aboriginal species such as Red Kite, Buzzard, Osprey and Sea Eagle will outnumber the Introduced species like the Pheasant, Red Legged Partridge, Chukar, and Canada Goose.

 

Bloody pheasants introduced from Asia and now the damn things are everywhere

 

Red Kites and Buzzards are predominantly carrion feeders but will take young mammals and chicks. But then again so will almost every native BOP, Owl and some corvidae in the UK.

 

Us bird watchers owe a great debt to the rearers of these invasive non residents which provide a food source for our native fauna....well done superb effort.

 

Red Kites infact were extremely common birds in Medievel times as common as crows, pigeons and seagulls are now. Although they were persecuted by Game breeders to protect the Introduced non native species...Their decline was actually more due to the invention of proper sanitation and waste disposal.

 

Oh and by the way Black Grouse, and Capercaille have been successfully reintroduced in to parts of Northern Britian absent in decline presumably because you shot them all.

 

Game breeders will have to change with the times and redevelop the release strategy and ways of Poult protection because there is no way that the 95% of the British bird loving public will ever allow native birds to be shot or destroyed in favour of a bird bred specifically to be Killed ( and in the main not eaten).

 

From my experience some rearers release the poults too early, presumably so that they are as wild and as free flying as possible and offer the most challenging shots to paying guns.

 

A Red kite or Buzzard on stubble is usually looking for Earthworms or Voles...unless theres any late nesting Pheasants or partridges of course.

AWAY AND ENJOY YOUR BIRD WATCHING THEN :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:

[hutchie the white hunter]

No Red Kites around here(Eden Valley Pennines)but loads further north when you get to Dumfries and Galloway where they are a major tourist attraction.We do have a lot of Buzzards,but I couldn't really say whether they're taking our birds or not;(although I did see one attacking a fully grown Curlew the other week)but I've never witnessed it.

As I've said before,the only experience I've had with Buzzards was most disappointing from a hunting point of view;the American red-tailed Kite and especially the Harris' Hawks were devastating on rabbits,but the Buzzard would just circle for a while,land in a tree and wait for the rabbit to die of old age.

What annoys me about the entire issue regarding Buzzards and game birds,is that there was a golden opportunity to settle the issue once and for all;meaning the study proposed by DEFRA recently,which the RSPB and other anti organisations put the mockers on.If,like the RSPB claims,Buzzards do not predate gamebirds,what had they to lose by allowing the study to go ahead?No birds or eggs were going to be destroyed during the study,so what objection could they possibly have?They could have once and for all stuck two fingers up at the gamekeepers and shooting organisations when they(the RSPB) were proved right.So why did they create such a sensational media campaign to have the study stopped?

 

How are pheasants an "invasive" species? Not all non native species are invasive.

 

Black grouse and capercaille declined mostly because of habitat loss, not because of shooting. Most of the remaining black grouse are on shooting estates.

 

How exactly are game birds "in the main not eaten"? Virtually all shot birds are eaten later.

 

The public don't seem to care much about killing stoats and foxes to protect game, at least not to the same extent they do for raptors. No one cares about killing cormorants to protect fish stocks.

 

Buzzards will eat whatever they find, whether it's a vole, a rabbit or a pheasant.

 

 

 

They used the opportunity to get some publicity and money, and the antis used it as a topical hook to attack shooting yet again, even though lethal control had not even been mentioned.

[hutchie the white hunter]

I’ve been reading this with interest as it’s not a subject I know a great deal about.

 

But I do have one comment.

Posting is caps like that doesn’t do much to further your cause or present your case, it just looks like the angry ranting of a child.

Perhaps we just have different interpretations of internet etiquette, but I see caps like that as angry shouting rather than any attempt at trying to make a reasoned point.

 

Anyhow.

How much damage to the red kites do?

Is it comparable to a couple of new pet cats in the area?

A couple of poachers?

Would a few red kites increase the stock shrinkage by 10 birds a month or 10 birds a day?

What’s the real financial cost of that?

 

If you could quantify the damage then perhaps there would be some way to claim it back from the people releasing the birds, or perhaps at least account or plan for it?

:lol:

[hutchie the white hunter]

What i will say is that yes you are in tiled to your own views ect but i must say there is weird posts on this forum coming form supposed shooters / hunters /FISHERMEN what's that all about

[aldivalloch]

Hutchie, I don't really have an opinion on the red kites, but I wish you'd turn your caps lock off and stop shouting.

 

And please don't be so disrespectful of people like Fisherman Mike. Some of the finest and most knowledgeable sportsmen that I've met in my now quite long life have been first and foremost naturalists who have taken, and continue to take, as much pleasure from just observing nature as from hunting, shooting and fishing.

 

Finally, it ill behoves you to talk about "weird posts"! Go back and read what you wrote in your post of about 40 minutes ago:- " also I have not studied these birds incontinently..."

 

Incontinently?? Pass the pads, folks....

[hutchie the white hunter]

Hutchie, I don't really have an opinion on the red kites, but I wish you'd turn your caps lock off and stop shouting.

 

And please don't be so disrespectful of people like Fisherman Mike. Some of the finest and most knowledgeable sportsmen that I've met in my now quite long life have been first and foremost naturalists who have taken, and continue to take, as much pleasure from just observing nature as from hunting, shooting and fishing.

 

Finally, it ill behoves you to talk about "weird posts"! Go back and read what you wrote in your post of about 40 minutes ago:- " also I have not studied these birds incontinently..."

 

Incontinently?? Pass the pads, folks....

:lol:stupid spell check the word i meant to say was "intricately", and if i wish to put CAPS ON I WILL OK ! ,for your information if you do not want to hear about hunting shooting ect don't come on to a HUNTING SHOOTING FORUM THEN as you should expect open criticism ,anyway if you dont have any interest on red kites why comment? stick to the original post without sticking your noes into others business as i think FISHERMAN MIKE has his own mouth

Edited August 20, 2012 by hutchie the white hunter

[Pole Star]

What i will say is that yes you are in tiled to your own views ect but i must say there is weird posts on this forum coming form supposed shooters / hunters /FISHERMEN what's that all about

 

Hutchie what is it you want Buzzards & Red Kites put on the free for all open season ? I think trying to get control for red kites is a wast of time as for buzzard control its going to be the long haul & until you can get it on film from all areas around the country of buzzards up to no good until then you will get no where . Did you hear about the RSPB trying to get their heads around the buzz taking that osprey chick ? I under stand there were moans of " the film was interfered with " It was an escaped falconers bird ! " talk about being on the run from the truth ! it was there on film for the nation to see for God sake ! .

Stake out your feed rides next season S.A.S style with your camera on the feed rides that you are sure are falling victims to regular buzz visits & find where buzz is nesting do the same there ! it will take weeks & weeks & check the castings ect around the nests . Now for the hard bit it will take thousands of man hours of watchers up & down the country with some very expensive cameras gear & even if you do film what you want it will still be the long haul .

For those who think its ok to shoot red kites on the sly ? well I think it was a N head near Ewelm in Oxon who thought it was ok till he got nabbed ! & it cost him dear & before some twatt jumps in & says pole star is loon & dose not know what he is talking about just remember this , a long time friend of mine was involved in Red Kite release program in the Chilterns & had the trackers for them & an old time backward keeper in oxon only escaped prosecution by the skin of his teeth because the RSPB moved in with its boots on & made a balls of it ! .

I don't have to much of a problem legal control but until then its got to be the long haul .

 

ps remember King Georges saying The wild life of today is not ours to dispose off as we please we must account for those who come after us .

Edited August 20, 2012 by Pole Star

[hutchie the white hunter]

Pole star if you read my original start post then i was on about keeping numbers reasonable nothing else ,what i mean is too much of anything is not good so i have no intention on catching anything on film, You should not need a control plan for animals being put back into the wild because it SHOULD be done correctly with everything and everyone concerned in mind that's my point " it isn't".

Edited August 20, 2012 by hutchie the white hunter

[DOLLSEYES]

I don't normally get involved in this type of post but i'm with Hutchie The White Hunter here.I have witnessed buzzards working pheasant release pens in pairs and in family groups!I think the group who are releasing the Redkites (was it forestry comission?) would be better off spending all that money on trying to re establish the Grey Partridge.

Edited August 20, 2012 by DOLLSEYES

[poontang]

WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT I THINK YOU ARE ON THE WRONG FORUM :unsure:

 

NO, I THINK I'M ON THE CORRECT FORUM.

 

I THINK YOU'RE ON THE WRONG FORUM...YOU SHOULD TRY THE 'LET'S KILL EVERYTHING, JUST INCASE IT MIGHT KILL MY PRECIOUS POULTS' FORUM.

 

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH I TOTALLY AGREE WITH FISHERMAN MIKE (EVEN THOUGH HE'S GOT **** TASTE IN MUSIC)

[hutchie the white hunter]

NO, I THINK I'M ON THE CORRECT FORUM.

 

I THINK YOU'RE ON THE WRONG FORUM...YOU SHOULD TRY THE 'LET'S KILL EVERYTHING, JUST INCASE IT MIGHT KILL MY PRECIOUS POULTS' FORUM.

 

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH I TOTALLY AGREE WITH FISHERMAN MIKE (EVEN THOUGH HE'S GOT **** TASTE IN MUSIC)

With that attitude i don't care what you think STICK TO THE POST !! AND AT NO POINT DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT KILLING THEM

 

I don't normally get involved in this type of post but i'm with Hutchie The White Hunter here.I have witnessed buzzards working pheasant release pens in pairs and in family groups!I think the group who are releasing the Redkites (was it forestry comission?) would be better off spending all that money on trying to re establish the Grey Partridge.

CHEERS

[aldivalloch]

Hutchie, if you want top keep your caps lock on, carry on.

 

But before I go away and do something more constructive than reading your rants, can I just point out a couple of things?

 

The first is that, having read all the posts, I don't see many people agreeing with your stance.

 

The second is that I come onto this forum because I fish, and shoot with rifle and shotgun. I've been involved in field sports for a very long time - longer, perhaps, than you've been walking this earth. That doesn't mean I have to like what is posted, particularly when it's pitched in the the rather aggressive style that you have been using.

 

I'm sure that Fisherman Mike indeed has his own mouth, but I reacted to your criticism of him as, by implication, you are criticising others who share his perspective, myself included.

 

I have to say that I find the tone of your response to me upleasant and booriish, and it contributes nothing to the usually quite high standard of debate to be found on Pigeon Watch, and so I will withdraw from the discussion.

 

I wish you luck in your mission to impose your opinions upon all who have posted intelligently on this thread. You appear to have a remarkable talent for pig-headedness in the face of reasoned argument.

[hutchie the white hunter]

Hutchie, if you want top keep your caps lock on, carry on.

 

But before I go away and do something more constructive than reading your rants, can I just point out a couple of things?

 

The first is that, having read all the posts, I don't see many people agreeing with your stance.

 

The second is that I come onto this forum because I fish, and shoot with rifle and shotgun. I've been involved in field sports for a very long time - longer, perhaps, than you've been walking this earth. That doesn't mean I have to like what is posted, particularly when it's pitched in the the rather aggressive style that you have been using.

 

I'm sure that Fisherman Mike indeed has his own mouth, but I reacted to your criticism of him as, by implication, you are criticising others who share his perspective, myself included.

 

I have to say that I find the tone of your response to me upleasant and booriish, and it contributes nothing to the usually quite high standard of debate to be found on Pigeon Watch, and so I will withdraw from the discussion.

 

I wish you luck in your mission to impose your opinions upon all who have posted intelligently on this thread. You appear to have a remarkable talent for pig-headedness in the face of reasoned argument.

Why should it become an argument people like YOU make it one that's why !! i was only asking for some thoughts on the subject and got hit by slanderous comments ,so likewise i too don't like your sarky comments so good bye

[spanj]

Ive stayed out of this until now but I thought it was a very good programme.

 

I hope that one day the native aboriginal species such as Red Kite, Buzzard, Osprey and Sea Eagle will outnumber the Introduced species like the Pheasant, Red Legged Partridge, Chukar, and Canada Goose.

 

Bloody pheasants introduced from Asia and now the damn things are everywhere

 

Red Kites and Buzzards are predominantly carrion feeders but will take young mammals and chicks. But then again so will almost every native BOP, Owl and some corvidae in the UK.

 

Us bird watchers owe a great debt to the rearers of these invasive non residents which provide a food source for our native fauna....well done superb effort.

 

Red Kites infact were extremely common birds in Medievel times as common as crows, pigeons and seagulls are now. Although they were persecuted by Game breeders to protect the Introduced non native species...Their decline was actually more due to the invention of proper sanitation and waste disposal.

 

Oh and by the way Black Grouse, and Capercaille have been successfully reintroduced in to parts of Northern Britian absent in decline presumably because you shot them all.

 

Game breeders will have to change with the times and redevelop the release strategy and ways of Poult protection because there is no way that the 95% of the British bird loving public will ever allow native birds to be shot or destroyed in favour of a bird bred specifically to be Killed ( and in the main not eaten).

 

From my experience some rearers release the poults too early, presumably so that they are as wild and as free flying as possible and offer the most challenging shots to paying guns.

 

A Red kite or Buzzard on stubble is usually looking for Earthworms or Voles...unless theres any late nesting Pheasants or partridges of course.

 

Dear God, talk about one sided ......... suppose you are for the reintroduction of the wolf and bear too !

 

One other question, seeings as you dont come across as a game shooter, I assume you are a pigeon shooter (after all this is pigeon watch, not RSPB watch !!!!). Would it not be possible for you to be a bit more supportive of your fellow guns, irrespective of they type of gun they may be. To set the record straight, I am both a game and pigeon shooter but support ALL forms of fieldsports and defend the right of people to partake in them.

[hutchie the white hunter]

Dear God, talk about one sided ......... suppose you are for the reintroduction of the wolf and bear too !

 

One other question, seeings as you dont come across as a game shooter, I assume you are a pigeon shooter (after all this is pigeon watch, not RSPB watch !!!!). Would it not be possible for you to be a bit more supportive of your fellow guns, irrespective of they type of gun they may be. To set the record straight, I am both a game and pigeon shooter but support ALL forms of fieldsports and defend the right of people to partake in them.

Well said i too am game / pigeon shooter and cant believe the responses on here

[spanj]

I don't normally get involved in this type of post but i'm with Hutchie The White Hunter here.I have witnessed buzzards working pheasant release pens in pairs and in family groups!I think the group who are releasing the Redkites (was it forestry comission?) would be better off spending all that money on trying to re establish the Grey Partridge.

 

Totally agree with this, not much money in promoting the grey though is there after all its "only" a gamebird, sad really. Hope I dont come across as too cynical but am heartily fed up with the loss of the grey and the over promotion of raptors

[Pole Star]

Pole star if you read my original start post then i was on about keeping numbers reasonable nothing else ,what i mean is too much of anything is not good so i have no intention on catching anything on film, You should not need a control plan for animals being put back into the wild because it SHOULD be done correctly with everything and everyone concerned in mind that's my point " it isn't".

 

I think now the Red Kite numbers are well established in parts of the UK Hutchie they should be left to there own devices & reintroduce them selves to their old range as they will in time as for the buzzards I think there are just about every where now but if you are persistent they are a problem then perhaps you can tell me how you will give the government the concrete proof & scientific evidence it needs to make a change in the law to allow control ? as that is the only thing they will listen too ! even if you can get it the RSPB will just be in denial of it & mobilize their liar & dirty tricks department ! remember the RSPB squeaks & government ministers tremble with fear & the mighty BACS roars like a lion & government ministers don't even look up from their feed troughs ! . I wonder what the answer is ? .

Edited August 20, 2012 by Pole Star

[Fisherman Mike]

AWAY AND ENJOY YOUR BIRD WATCHING THEN :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:

 

Thanks very much I will...and my hunting, shooting and fishing.

 

We have to live together and find a solution....

 

People like me are on your side...Im trying to safeguard all country sports and passtimes for my children to enjoy as I did and theirs after them.

 

It may be that Buzzards numbers will be contolled in the future as their staple foodsource is still the Rabbit as it was when they were almost extinguished in Lowland areas in the late 50's & 60's after the invention of Myxymatosis. If Buzzard numbers continue to increase and Rabbits decline their numbers will drop again.

 

I dont know what the answer is...breed more poults and have acceptable losses to predation ? Have a sabbatical from game shooting 1 year in 4 but still breed and release poults to over winter and breed naturally.?

 

All Ido know is that raptor control by shooting will never be legalised in favour of preserving game bird stocks..

 

I am infact a member of the BTO, RSPB, WWT, and BASC and see it as my duty to try and educated my colleagues towards sustainable country sports and passtimes for all. I have shot Pheasants in the past, and all the birds on the General list...its well documented that I dont shoot migratory birds like Woodcock or other waders...but each to his own...if its sustainable then thats fine. Like it or not we shooters are a minority and we have to put and keep our own house in order...and do it strictly within the confines of the law....Every raptor that is poisoned or shot illegally In Britain that comesto the attention of the public is just making that sustainability a little more difficult.

 

Get your self a pair of bins and go and watch the Kites for an hour or two and you may see just what incredible masters of the air they are...

[Reece]

I dont know what the answer is...breed more poults and have acceptable losses to predation ? Have a sabbatical from game shooting 1 year in 4 but still breed and release poults to over winter and breed naturally.?

 

All Ido know is that raptor control by shooting will never be legalised in favour of preserving game bird stocks..

 

There are non lethal forms of reducing the impacts of buzzards. Cutting curved rides and planting plenty of cover at the edge of said rides makes it harder for raptors to strike, especially those with a large wingspan. CDs can work if they are moved around. Apparently rap music keeps them away as well (it would certainly keep me away!).

 

Corvid control is permitted under the general license. That is to protect game stocks, and that is legal. I agree that at the moment, it is a huge stretch to expect buzzards to go on the general license. And you can get licenses to control buzzards, but as far as I am aware, none have ever been issued to protect game birds.

[-Mongrel-]

Is there a BLOCK/IGNORE option on this forum?

 

The crass, agressive, rude style of posting as well as the tripe spouted by certain single minded (possibly single brain celled too) individuals REALLY IS MORE THAN I CARE TO DEAL WITH!

 

 

Ah, found it! Thank the Lord for that! No more drivel from a couple of our northern bretheren!

Edited August 20, 2012 by -Mongrel-

[digger]

when i was a keeper we bred a percentage over to allow for predation. that was on an estate with six keepers all taking predator control seruously. I can honestly say we lost more to cars than raptors. The only time we lost more than a handful per pen was to owls and even then that was negligble. We put cut branches in the rides, hung cds and as above put dog legs in to prevent speedy attacks. Another idea was to keep the rides narrow and the dusting areas further into the wood in a sunny patch but not one that is too open.