Apparently, all of the wounded in the Empire State shooting were cause

[Bleeh]

Where caused by the police (stupid short titles)

 

http://edition.cnn.c...state-shooting/

Edited August 25, 2012 by Bleeh

[parapilot]

Imagine that happend in the UK!! Police would be banned from having guns lol,

 

Seriously how the hell did they manage to injure 9 bystanders. like to count how many rounds they let off.

[-Mongrel-]

Seriously how the hell did they manage to injure 9 bystanders. like to count how many rounds they let off.

 

'The officers unloaded 16 rounds in the shadow of the Empire State Building at a disgruntled former apparel designer, killing him after he engaged in a gunbattle with police, authorities said.

Three passersby sustained direct gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments, according to New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. All injuries were caused by police, he said Saturday.

One officer shot nine rounds and another shot seven.'

 

Anyone else think the officers maybe need to go on a marksmanship course?

[Paul223]

thing is a marksmanship course is nothing like real life with moving hiding target, and civvies running for cover / getting in the way, and marksmanship targets don't shoot back, it happened at 9 ish in the morning in a very busy area, i'm surprised there aren't more wounded!

[HDAV]

thing is a marksmanship course is nothing like real life with moving hiding target, and civvies running for cover / getting in the way, and marksmanship targets don't shoot back, it happened at 9 ish in the morning in a very busy area, i'm surprised there aren't more wounded!

Isn't that a case of appropriate training......

[-Mongrel-]

Surely in a crowded area they should have held/limited their fire? As people who carry and use guns for a living, surely they should be trained to be able to, A/ Hit a human sized torso every time, and B/ To deal with situations that involve running innocents and hiding/moving targets?

 

...and please don't bother asking/suggesting that I couldn't do any better, I'm not a paid, (allegedly) professional in that field so there's no reason to assume I would be.

[Vermincinerator]

Imagine that happend in the UK!! Police would be banned from having guns lol,

 

Seriously how the hell did they manage to injure 9 bystanders. like to count how many rounds they let off.

 

Dont be silly, if that was here in the UK the injured bystanders would be blamed for being in the immediate area of a police shoot out at the wrong time

 

Ian.

[ordnance]

Surely in a crowded area they should have held/limited their fire? As people who carry and use guns for a living, surely they should be trained to be able to, A/ Hit a human sized torso every time, and B/ To deal with situations that involve running innocents and hiding/moving targets?

 

...and please don't bother asking/suggesting that I couldn't do any better, I'm not a paid, (allegedly) professional in that field so there's no reason to assume I would be.

If the police had to able to hit running targets consistently with a handgun before being able to carry one their would be very few carrying handguns. Or even hit a man sized target while under stress. The SAS ect might have enough training to do that but few ordinary officer on the beat would be able to.

[HDAV]

While all police in the US carry guns I think only specialists like swat go through the same high level training as our firearms guys ( same swagger classes too)

[Rushjob]

Have any of you commenting on the lack of marksmanship ever had to try to return accurate fire when under fire yourselves from an armed individual?

 

Thought not.

 

It's a bit different to punching holes in bits of paper.

[m3vert]

Nope I certainly havent BUT I thought I read somewhere that the killer only fired 3 shots? 2 off those went into the lad he murdered so he only got one shot of at the Police! Not exactly a massive gunfight

[HDAV]

Have any of you commenting on the lack of marksmanship ever had to try to return accurate fire when under fire yourselves from an armed individual?

 

 

Nope nor am i expected too, not being an armed police officer........If they can't do it they shouldn't be carrying a gun!

Edited August 26, 2012 by HDAV

[ordnance]

Nope nor am i expected too, not being an armed police officer........If they can't do it they shouldn't be carrying a gun!

 

Tell me a police force with that level of training. No one knows how they will react when under fire. The police carry firearms here i doubt many of them have the level of training you think they require to carry firearms. Should they not be carrying firearms.?

[Paul223]

Tell me a police force with that level of training. No one knows how they will react when under fire. The police carry firearms here i doubt many of them have the level of training you think they require to carry firearms. Should they not be carrying firearms.?

indeed, have them called out to you and see them shacking with nerves whilst pointing a loaded gun at you

[gazzthompson]

You can watch the cops shooting him on youtube, not sure if i can link here? so search 'new york shooting cctv'

[-Mongrel-]

...and please don't bother asking/suggesting that I couldn't do any better, I'm not a paid, (allegedly) professional in that field so there's no reason to assume I would be.

 

If the police had to able to hit running targets consistently with a handgun before being able to carry one their would be very few carrying handguns. Or even hit a man sized target while under stress. The SAS ect might have enough training to do that but few ordinary officer on the beat would be able to.

 

Have any of you commenting on the lack of marksmanship ever had to try to return accurate fire when under fire yourselves from an armed individual?

 

Thought not.

 

It's a bit different to punching holes in bits of paper.

 

Nope nor am i expected too, not being an armed police officer........If they can't do it they shouldn't be carrying a gun!

 

 

I knew somebody would have to say it, but anyway, I'm with HDAV on this one.

 

We don't need to show that level of marksmanship because we are recreational shooters. Armed professionals who can't achieve high levels of maksmanship maybe shouldn't be armed until they can?

[ordnance]

indeed, have them called out to you and see them shacking with nerves whilst pointing a loaded gun at you

 

No i have had the police called out on numerous occasions over the years. But they have never had their guns out of their holsters. And they don't come mob handed usually a patrol car with two officers.

[HDAV]

Having spoken to several armed officers inc a retired head of firearms training the level of training is very very high but your right knowing how someone reacts under fire is impossible although a lot of training and testing goes on to minimise the risk of them freezing or going trigger happy. Part of the reason they aren't armed and left to it, training is a continuous process and includes regular range and situation training, if they don't make the grade are returning from injury or illness are put on lower stress duties like airports, rather than rapid response, the copper I was talking to did several turns at the local airport while his divorce was going through as it was a stressful time for him.