Reece Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Recently, there was a call for shooting magazines to go on the top shelf, a campaign launched by animal rights organisation Animal Aid, to try to stop children learning to shoot. Most should be aware of this already. Animal Aid also produced a report called "gunning for children", as part of their campaign. I feel that it is important for Pigeon Watch members to see this report, so I have decided to post it here for all to see. This is the sort of rubbish that we are up against. It could make a shooter's blood boil, but it is still a good idea to keep up to date with the propaganda being put out against us. "Gunning for Children - How the gun lobby recruits young blood" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Nothing of any substance in there. They are wound up because campaigns led by BASC and the CA are working. Suggesting that these campaigns are dangerous etc is unfairly damaging to the organisations. The magazines are also targeted in an inappropriate manner. If I was high up in one of these organisations I'd ensure Carter-Ruck were breathing down the neck of Animal Aid every time they used a publication to attack shooting organisations and publications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Not more Animal Aid stuff. They are getting quite boring. Edit; having read most of it, there's a bit at the end that says the Gun Control Network as research that proves that the majority of gun crimes are committed with legally owned guns. This directly contradicts what the Police are saying, are they allowed to publish that? Edited September 7, 2012 by cant hit rabbits 123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Boring it may be, but this is what the general public are being bombarded with everyday. If you see something enough then you will probably start to believe it especially the real countryside population is being replaced by townies. Personally I think it's a dangerous game to ignore it but I don't see anything coming from the shooting bodies to challenge and counteract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Having read most of it, there's a bit at the end that says the Gun Control Network as research that proves that the majority of gun crimes are committed with legally owned guns. This directly contradicts what the Police are saying, are they allowed to publish that? That statement is the biggest load of rubbish imaginable. I'm not sure if they can publish it or not (as it is, after all, factually wrong), but the shooting organisation should be countering this kind of publication, and jumping on these factually incorrect statements to point out that they are a bunch of ill-informed, ignorant morons. I can't see any responses from the shooting organisations though - they should be fighting for us - are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 That statement is the biggest load of rubbish imaginable. I'm not sure if they can publish it or not (as it is, after all, factually wrong), but the shooting organisation should be countering this kind of publication, and jumping on these factually incorrect statements to point out that they are a bunch of ill-informed, ignorant morons. I can't see any responses from the shooting organisations though - they should be fighting for us - are they? Much what I said a little while ago re the shooting organisations, it seems they are content to pick and choose what they want to fight, but, they really should be more pro-active I reckon and hit this stuff head on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Suggest that the muppet starts with computer games mags. Sadly, a teenager seems to have taken his life after playing one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is this mixed up psychology--that shooting equates to cruelty--being distributed to schools? Having lived in farming communities for most of my life I have seen many young people from a shooting background growing up. By far the best adjusted young men and women were those whose farthers, uncles, brothers, etc, took them shooting and trusted them with a gun--thereby giving them responsibility at an early age.It pays dividends. None of the kids who ever went off the rails, or ended up in prison, were shooters. These AnimalAid people are exactly the same sort of people who think only of the perpetrator of crime rather than the victim. I agree that all of the field sports organiations should be kicking them at every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Is this mixed up psychology--that shooting equates to cruelty--being distributed to schools? Probably not this report, but Animal Aid do have speakers who go into schools, and they do provide stuff for teachers. Then they complain when BASC et al do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Of course they don't try and impress their views on young children.......http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/YOUTH/HOME/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 so the "vegatarian" stars i`m supposed to idolise are... russel brand, an ex heroine addict. Mike tyson who at one point was "less" vegatarian, and in prison. i certainly remember him eating meat, it was all over the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2000e2000e Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I think the fact about most firearms offences are committed with firearms that are likely legally owned, is probably true. But, its a big but to, it includes airguns and BB gun, so some kids with airguns shooting cats or swans or whatever, comes under this banner, or someone using an imitation hand gun to intimidate someone! It is not as the police stats show guns which are held on certificates that are a problem. They seem to think there expert from Brighton Uni to be infaliable, but he conflates the misuse of air rifles on a council estate to shoot cats and intimidate with the legal use of sporting arms, anyone with a half a brian can see this is rubbish. Speak to you friends about shooting and you will find the general public are alot more savvy then this bunch of nutters (I imagine woman with a large knit jumpers and big glasses) My wife's best friend is a veggie, but she loves coming to our house because she will eat anything I've shot because it has a proper freerange life and despatch in a humane manner! I would stress that the best thing we can do as individuls is talk to friends and colleagues about shooting, yes there will be people who are as set in their ways as we are, but you will find most people will understand the arguements for shooting, and if they come over for dinner, arguement won! It will also restore your faith in humanity (hopefully) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 the only thing in the whole article that was any good was the picture of the beautiful pheasant at the very bottom a species that would probably die out if it was not for the shooting fraternity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I think the fact about most firearms offences are committed with firearms that are likely legally owned, is probably true. I would have to look it up to get the exact figures,but I don't think the above is correct,and a lot depends on the definition of 'firearm'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2000e2000e Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Well you can be sure they are using the broadest possible definition of firearm, and thats exactly what I'm trying to say the police statitics show that guns on certifcates are involved in few crimes. Had a quick look on Wikipedia as I thought it would be interesting to see,(see below) So air weapons and imitation firearms together do make up over half the stats and these are relativly easy to obtain so the likely legally owned thing does hold true, less then 500 about 4% of the crimes were carried out by guns that should be on certifcates but the figures don't go to that detail whether these were legal or stolen etc. So while what they say may in the strictest sense be true it is not relevant to the arguement over game shooting and young people. Don't dismiss it as a lie, dismiss it as irrelevent rubbish. Crime is crime legal gun ownership is not. In the year Apr 2010 to Mar 2011 there were 11,227 recorded offences involving firearms, broken down as follows. By weapon type: Long-barrelled shotgun = 406 Sawn-off shotgun = 202 Handgun = 3,105 Rifle = 74 Imitation firearm = 1,610 Unidentified firearm = 957 Other firearm = 670 Air weapons = 4,203 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 My apologies; have realised I have misread your thread,as I was thinking of the number of legally held firearms used in murders(and you were referring to firearms offences) which is around the 3% mark I believe of the total murders committed with firearms,but I'm willing to be corrected. Is there a further breakdown of 'handgun',and further reference to 'unidentified firearm' and 'other firearm'?The unidentified firearm is interesting as I've been told by several retired coppers that if a witness believes they saw a gun at any incident,it is reported as a 'firearm incident' . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e2000e2000e Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 No need to apoligies my friend all you said was you would like to check the facts, always good advice! And, no there was no clarification of unidentified firearms, but what was interesting to note the majority of air gun crimes were criminal damage and not the violent crimes the animal aid people were trying to make out. That's what you find with alot of this kind of stuff while the odd fact the do put in is true, the fact when investigated dosn't actually support there arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikingRebel Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) What a load of sanctimonious drivel. And im really getting sick of this whole "killing for fun" label the antis keep tarring all shooters with. I personally shoot primarily for food, i eat everything i shoot, with the exception of the rats (we have a timber house, the little blighters get in the walls and do unimaginable damage to the electrics. They have also killed our chickens and quails in the past. I don't like poisoning or trapping them because it causes them suffering. Shooting is the most humane way of getting rid of them). Do i enjoy hunting? Absolutely, but it is not the act of killing i derive pleasure from, but from spending time in the great outdoors, using fieldcraft skills and working alongside nature, and the sense of self sufficiency and being able to provide sustenence for me and my family without having to rely anybody else in society. Not that any of those Gun Control Network or Animal Aid idiots would understand, they clearly have no notion of the concepts of individual liberty and self determination. They want a society where everybody leads a bland, inoffensive and politically correct lifestyle. - "Put down those guns, knives, slingshots and fishing rods. Stop tearing around the countryside in your Landrovers and pickup trucks and buy a normal car. Buy your meat from a supermarket like everybody else. Entertain yourselves by sitting indoors watching the Xfactor and Eastenders like ordinary people do. Just toe the line and don't ask quesions like a good little slave". Edited September 11, 2012 by VikingRebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 What a load of sanctimonious drivel. And im really getting sick of this whole "killing for fun" label the antis keep tarring all shooters with. I personally shoot primarily for food, i eat everything i shoot, with the exception of the rats (we have a timber house, the little blighters get in the walls and do unimaginable damage to the electrics. They have also killed our chickens and quails in the past. I don't like poisoning or trapping them because it causes them suffering. Shooting is the most humane way of getting rid of them). Do i enjoy hunting? Absolutely, but it is not the act of killing i derive pleasure from, but from spending time in the great outdoors, using fieldcraft skills and working alongside nature, and the sense of self sufficiency and being able to provide sustenence for me and my family without having to rely anybody else in society. Not that any of those Gun Control Network or Animal Aid idiots would understand, they clearly have no notion of the concepts of individual liberty and self determination. They want a society where everybody leads a bland, inoffensive and politically correct lifestyle. - "Put down those guns, knives, slingshots and fishing rods. Stop tearing around the countryside in your Landrovers and pickup trucks and buy a normal car. Buy your meat from a supermarket like everybody else. Entertain yourselves by sitting indoors watching the Xfactor and Eastenders like ordinary people do. Just toe the line and don't ask quesions like a good little slave". Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 What a load of sanctimonious drivel. And im really getting sick of this whole "killing for fun" label the antis keep tarring all shooters with. I personally shoot primarily for food, i eat everything i shoot, with the exception of the rats (we have a timber house, the little blighters get in the walls and do unimaginable damage to the electrics. They have also killed our chickens and quails in the past. I don't like poisoning or trapping them because it causes them suffering. Shooting is the most humane way of getting rid of them). Do i enjoy hunting? Absolutely, but it is not the act of killing i derive pleasure from, but from spending time in the great outdoors, using fieldcraft skills and working alongside nature, and the sense of self sufficiency and being able to provide sustenence for me and my family without having to rely anybody else in society. Not that any of those Gun Control Network or Animal Aid idiots would understand, they clearly have no notion of the concepts of individual liberty and self determination. They want a society where everybody leads a bland, inoffensive and politically correct lifestyle. - "Put down those guns, knives, slingshots and fishing rods. Stop tearing around the countryside in your Landrovers and pickup trucks and buy a normal car. Buy your meat from a supermarket like everybody else. Entertain yourselves by sitting indoors watching the Xfactor and Eastenders like ordinary people do. Just toe the line and don't ask quesions like a good little slave". actually shooting rats is the only way of disposal of these little blighters. they are becoming more and more resistant to poisons. a documetry on these things showed that after several generations of sub lethal dosing they become resistant and breed like rats again. the documentry showed a farmer having loads of agro, he was in tears at one point when the rats were actually living in the stores of poison, happily munching it. rats need a good whacking ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 actually shooting rats is the only way of disposal of these little blighters. they are becoming more and more resistant to poisons. a documetry on these things showed that after several generations of sub lethal dosing they become resistant and breed like rats again. the documentry showed a farmer having loads of agro, he was in tears at one point when the rats were actually living in the stores of poison, happily munching it. rats need a good whacking ! You can solve the problem of immunity to poison by changing the type of poison apparently, but poison is less humane and can also affect other animals. Dogs pick up dead rats sometimes. I know of cases where dogs have died as a result of picking up dead rats. Shooting is the best way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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