Bridleway and Rifles

[JustJon]

Gents,

 

What's the law around rifles on public footpaths and bridleways?

 

Just had the mutt out walking and 2 lads walked past, one with a gun slip over his shoulder, the other carrying a rifle, assume air but don't know much about them.

 

Lass walking her dog the other way looked scared out of her life - from my point of view this is daft but is it also illegal.

 

Seemed to go into the local woods - not sure whether legally or not and didn't discuss it with them for obvious reason.

 

Am I being daft thinking this is inappropriate?

[Livefast123]

I think i'm right in thinking that an air rifle must be cased in a public place?

[Gimlet]

An air rifle is only required to covered in such a way that it cannot be fired in a public place if it is carried by a minor. A bridleway is not a public place. It is private property which the public have a right to cross on foot or horseback by a prescribed route. Of course you can have a rifle on a right-of-way, provided the gun and the person in possession of it comply with all relevent licensing law and that person has permission to be there.

What a shooter cannot do is impede the lawful use of a right-of-way (you can't close it so you can shoot), nor may he endanger, intimidate or inconvenience lawful public access. If you discharge a .338 Win mag in a hedge next to a bridleway and the noise causes a passing horse to throw its rider and they break their neck, you will be liable. If the rider is tresspassing off the right-of-way they are the author of their own misfortune. Though proving you didn't know they were there and didn't discharge the shot maliciously to teach them a lesson is not a point I'd care to test in court.

But that's public rtights-of-way. Public highways are a completely different matter.

I shall be pleased to be corrected if I'm wrong on any point. We all should know the law. Trouble is much firearms law has never been tested in court and is often open to interpretation.

[Vince Green]

I would have taken it to be a public place if the public have right of access. But the golden rule in all these things is don't show out. Least seen soonest mended.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Vince Green

[poontang]

I would have taken it to be a public place if the public have right of access. But the golden rule in all these things is don't show out. Least seen soonest mended.

 

Sounds about right to me.

 

It may on private land but it's a designated public path.

[Scully]

As far as I'm aware,if you do not hinder nor disrupt any person from going about their lawful business on a bridlepath etc,then you are legally allowed to go about your lawful business,including shooting.

[wymberley]

The three conditions - injured, interrupted and endangered only apply to highways.

 

A public place includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the time in question the public have or are permitted to have access whether on payment or otherwise.

 

Under the conditions given, lawful authority or reasonable excuse rear their ugly heads.

[Blunderbuss]

All you need to know is in this document, some key extracts:

 

DEFINITIONS

 

Rights of way fall into two categories, Public rights of way and Private rights of way.

 

Public rights of way

 

Highways are a way in which the public have the right to pass and re-pass by foot, on horseback or with vehicles. Bridleways, footpaths and metalled roads (carriageways) are all examples of highways. Carriageways are a way constructed or comprised in a highway (other than a cycle track) over which the public have a right of way by foot, on horseback or with vehicles.

 

Bridleways are a highway over which the public has a right of way on foot, on horseback or leading a horse. There is also a right to use a pedal cycle on a bridleway providing the cyclist gives way to pedestrians and riders.For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a ‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g.footpaths.

 

SHOOTING NEAR RIGHTS OF WAY (E.G. FOOTPATHS & BRIDLEWAYS)

 

When the footpath runs across private land the ownership of the land and sporting rights are unaltered. Therefore a person with the shooting/sporting rights may shoot on or over footpaths on their land equally to public having the right to walk

(to pass and re-pass) along it as a means of communication. So the public and the shooters have a concurrent right to the footpath and it is up to both parties to not obstruct the other. However if you shoot over footpaths, only do so if you have permission to drop shot over the land on the other side. To fire a bullet or shot onto land that you have no right to shoot into or over is ‘constructive trespass’. Whilst this is a civil matter BASC strongly advises not to do this. It is also a basic safety precaution not to shoot into cover where you cannot be sure what your projectile(s) will hit. It is especially important to apply this when shooting near footpaths obscured by hedges or foliage. It is good practice to only shoot across footpaths where you can see approaching users from a long way off and be certain you will not cause danger or alarm. Please note that in the case of air weapons it is a criminal offence to fire an air pellet outside the boundary of your permitted premises. If you shoot from a path situated on somebody else’s land (regardless of who owns the rights to shoot on the land you are shooting into) it is taken to be armed trespass which is a criminal offence.

[Gimlet]

One of the reasons I got a .222 to shoot rabbits was footpaths. I've got few places where paths pass between hedges along the bottom of a valley with rabbits on either side. I can't shoot down the slope towards the path for obvious reasons; I can't shoot in the field parallel to the path, and I can't shoot up the slope from the field side of the hedge because every target will be on the skyline. The only option is to retreat high up one side where I can see the path into the distance in either direction and see that it is clear and shoot across. It takes the shot out to 200 yds+, hence the .222, but it works a treat. On legal rights-of-way I keep out of sight so I don't meet trouble half way. If someone comes along I just have to sit it out.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Gimlet

[crosshair]

Yes, it is legal to shoot over a public footpath, but with care, the same for a bridleway.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a byway, open to all traffic, again it is legal to shoot over it.

Common sense should prevail, safety first, and if you see traffic horses or walkers try and keep

out of sight, some people love an incident.

[wymberley]

Yes, it is legal to shoot over a public footpath, but with care, the same for a bridleway.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a byway, open to all traffic, again it is legal to shoot over it.

Common sense should prevail, safety first, and if you see traffic horses or walkers try and keep

out of sight, some people love an incident.

 

Hi,

 

I have a genuine reason for asking. In all my references I can find no mention of BOATs with regard to shooting. Can you by chance provide any documentation that as far as shooting is concerned BOATs do not qualify as highways?

 

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

[crosshair]

You can do a search for it, but I can assure you it is legal.

I have almost two miles of byway going through the farm, together with footpaths.

And the farm is covered for up to .308.

BOAT, (Byway open to all traffic) I think says it all, just the word "byway" covers

the rules, hope it helps.

[wymberley]

You can do a search for it, but I can assure you it is legal.

I have almost two miles of byway going through the farm, together with footpaths.

And the farm is covered for up to .308.

BOAT, (Byway open to all traffic) I think says it all, just the word "byway" covers

the rules, hope it helps.

 

Many thanks.

 

As said, it is greatly appreciated.

[crosshair]

Hope it helped.

[Robbie uk]

Usually the land owner or either side of the path will be the owner to that path or bridal way and as said it is not a public place but the publi do have a right to walk it. So having an uncovered/loaded weapon upon it is not illegal. The land owners cannot stop the public from using the path nor can they try and encourage them to stop using it.

[JonathanL]

An air rifle is only required to covered in such a way that it cannot be fired in a public place if it is carried by a minor. A bridleway is not a public place. It is private property which the public have a right to cross on foot or horseback by a prescribed route. Of course you can have a rifle on a right-of-way, provided the gun and the person in possession of it comply with all relevent licensing law and that person has permission to be there.

What a shooter cannot do is impede the lawful use of a right-of-way (you can't close it so you can shoot), nor may he endanger, intimidate or inconvenience lawful public access. If you discharge a .338 Win mag in a hedge next to a bridleway and the noise causes a passing horse to throw its rider and they break their neck, you will be liable. If the rider is tresspassing off the right-of-way they are the author of their own misfortune. Though proving you didn't know they were there and didn't discharge the shot maliciously to teach them a lesson is not a point I'd care to test in court.

But that's public rtights-of-way. Public highways are a completely different matter.

I shall be pleased to be corrected if I'm wrong on any point. We all should know the law. Trouble is much firearms law has never been tested in court and is often open to interpretation.

 

A bridleway most certainly is a public place. How could it not be? It is for public use, after all.

 

J.

 

I would have taken it to be a public place if the public have right of access. But the golden rule in all these things is don't show out. Least seen soonest mended.

 

For the purposes of the Firearms Act a public place is any place to which, at the material time, the public have or are permitted access.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

All you need to know is in this document, some key extracts:

 

DEFINITIONS

 

Rights of way fall into two categories, Public rights of way and Private rights of way.

 

Public rights of way

 

Highways are a way in which the public have the right to pass and re-pass by foot, on horseback or with vehicles. Bridleways, footpaths and metalled roads (carriageways) are all examples of highways. Carriageways are a way constructed or comprised in a highway (other than a cycle track) over which the public have a right of way by foot, on horseback or with vehicles.

 

Bridleways are a highway over which the public has a right of way on foot, on horseback or leading a horse. There is also a right to use a pedal cycle on a bridleway providing the cyclist gives way to pedestrians and riders.For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a ‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g.footpaths.

 

SHOOTING NEAR RIGHTS OF WAY (E.G. FOOTPATHS & BRIDLEWAYS)

 

When the footpath runs across private land the ownership of the land and sporting rights are unaltered. Therefore a person with the shooting/sporting rights may shoot on or over footpaths on their land equally to public having the right to walk

(to pass and re-pass) along it as a means of communication. So the public and the shooters have a concurrent right to the footpath and it is up to both parties to not obstruct the other. However if you shoot over footpaths, only do so if you have permission to drop shot over the land on the other side. To fire a bullet or shot onto land that you have no right to shoot into or over is ‘constructive trespass’. Whilst this is a civil matter BASC strongly advises not to do this. It is also a basic safety precaution not to shoot into cover where you cannot be sure what your projectile(s) will hit. It is especially important to apply this when shooting near footpaths obscured by hedges or foliage. It is good practice to only shoot across footpaths where you can see approaching users from a long way off and be certain you will not cause danger or alarm. Please note that in the case of air weapons it is a criminal offence to fire an air pellet outside the boundary of your permitted premises. If you shoot from a path situated on somebody else’s land (regardless of who owns the rights to shoot on the land you are shooting into) it is taken to be armed trespass which is a criminal offence.

 

That is out of date. It is now an offence to cause shot or a bullet to fall outside the land over which you have permissiont to shoot.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Usually the land owner or either side of the path will be the owner to that path or bridal way and as said it is not a public place but the publi do have a right to walk it. So having an uncovered/loaded weapon upon it is not illegal. The land owners cannot stop the public from using the path nor can they try and encourage them to stop using it.

 

If the public are allowed to be there or if they have physical access then it is a public place.J

 

J.

Edited September 17, 2012 by JonathanL

[al4x]

so are you saying you cannot shoot from, near or over a footpath or bridleway or allow your shot to fall on one Jonathan?

 

As round here that would effectively stop pretty much all shooting

[JonathanL]

so are you saying you cannot shoot from, near or over a footpath or bridleway or allow your shot to fall on one Jonathan?

 

As round here that would effectively stop pretty much all shooting

 

No. You cannot allow it to fall outside the land on which you have the permission. For example, you cannot fire an airgun into your neighbours garden unless they have given you permission to do so. If you do then you commit an offence.

 

J.

[al4x]

stop twisting the question, it was if you have a footpath or bridleway do you have to stop shot landing on it when your farm borders both sides or another way it runs through your land?

 

round here if you took 300 yards either side as the safe fallout area you could hardly shoot anywhere if it was the case

[JonathanL]

stop twisting the question, it was if you have a footpath or bridleway do you have to stop shot landing on it when your farm borders both sides or another way it runs through your land?

 

round here if you took 300 yards either side as the safe fallout area you could hardly shoot anywhere if it was the case

 

I'm not twisting the question. I'm saying that you cannot allow your shot to land on someone elses land. I fail to see where the problem is here. If a bridleway runs through the land where you have permission to shoot then it isn't anyone elses property.

 

J.

[al4x]

ah but in your previous replies you were calling them all public places hence the confusion,

[JonathanL]

ah but in your previous replies you were calling them all public places hence the confusion,

 

They are public places for the purpose of the Firearms Act. In fact virtually everywhere will be if the public are not physically prevented from having access. I think it's the same definition as for road traffic purposes.

 

J.

[Robbie uk]

Footpaths and bridalways are owned by the landowner eitherside of the paths. They are not public places but the public have rights of way over them. two very different things.