Gun selection for clays - grounds and sharing a gun ?

[Anonymouslemming]

Hi all,

 

I have an SGC application in at the moment - I had my house visit about 3 weeks ago and the officer called last Thursday to say that he's now put the application forward for processing. So now it's time to start looking for a gun in the optimistic hope that it is granted

 

I've not found a ground that I plan on shooting at regularly yet - I want to try a few and I'm still trying to find good recommendations near me (East London - City airport area). There is one place just up the M11 that looks promising, but I'm hoping to find a few more to try.

 

I was originally planning on a semi-automatic (Mossberg 930 or Hatsan Escort) as from what I've read, the recoil is less and my wife will be more comfortable with this. They are also fairly affordable. My total budget is around GBP900 including ear protection and eye protection x 2.

 

However, I've recently read a few posts on a few different forums about clay grounds that aren't happy with semi automatics. I was also advised by a salesman at Essex Gun that an over / under would be better as a first gun partly due to simpler maintenance and partly due to less chance of injury caused by bad hand placement around the action of a semi.

 

I don't want to limit where I can shoot - does this mean that I really should be looking at an over / under ?

 

Finally, do grounds accept two people shooting using the same gun, or will we need to get my wife's SGC in now as well?

 

Thanks in advance,

[mickmep]

hi.

i would try a few guns before deciding what to buy. do you have friends that shoot that you could go to a ground with ?

failing that i'm sure most grounds with a gunshop would let you try a secondhand one before parting with your hard earned.

gun choice is down to you, a semi auto is ok for clays but most will recomend an o/u for anyones first clay gun.

 

with an o/u you can use lighter cartridges for the misses to reduce felt recoil, dropping to 24 or 21 gramme will make a noticable difference.

 

grounds should be fine with you sharing a gun, and will have an exemption ( i believe its a section 21 ) which allows non sgc holders to shoot there.

 

nothing wrong with a semi auto safety wise, theyre the same as an o/u in that its down to the operator how safe they are.

 

never owned one but i'd be very wary of buying either of the semi auto's you're thinking of, for my money i'd buy a secondhand 391 beretta

if you want a semi auto, it should cycle the 24 gramme cartridges and if youre lucky the 21's as well and a secondhand one can be picked up

from around £500. o/u most recomend a lanber or miroku for a budget gun or one of the older 686's would be where my money went.

 

enjoy your shooting

[the_commoner]

i personally wouldn't buy a semi-auto for a first gun, you will have enough to learn without among other things having to worry how many you've still got up the spout so to speak !

with that budget you should be able to buy a decent second hand beretta, with multi chokes - that would be my advice

[robbiep]

Most clay grounds do allow semi-autos. However, they are a bit frowned upon.

There are a number of reasons for this :

1. Ejected cartridges. When you fire a semi, the spent cartridge flies out to the right. Directly at the next person.

2. Lack of easily visible safe gun. You know that a broken O/U or S/S is safe. You have to look at a semi a lot more closely.

3. Spent cartridge pickup. Semi shooters are (my opinion and experience here) a lot less likely to pick up after themselves. It's like litter.

4. Snobbishness. Much like you would be frowned upon for taking a semi/pump on a grouse day.

[Anonymouslemming]

hi.

i would try a few guns before deciding what to buy. do you have friends that shoot that you could go to a ground with ?

failing that i'm sure most grounds with a gunshop would let you try a secondhand one before parting with your hard earned.

gun choice is down to you, a semi auto is ok for clays but most will recomend an o/u for anyones first clay gun.

 

Sadly I don't have any friends who actively shoot at the moment. The only mate I do have that shoots has a lovely Beretta o/u.

 

I'll start calling grounds to see if there are any with shops attached so that I can hopefully test. I believe that Essex Gun have a store with a range attached, so I might try there too.

 

 

with an o/u you can use lighter cartridges for the misses to reduce felt recoil, dropping to 24 or 21 gramme will make a noticable difference.

 

grounds should be fine with you sharing a gun, and will have an exemption ( i believe its a section 21 ) which allows non sgc holders to shoot there.

 

Thanks - those are both good facts to know. I need to read up on the exemption to understand whether or not it covers me supervising her, or if it has to be an officer / staff member of the ground. If it's just me, that should let us just shoot instead of only shooting together at lessons.

 

 

never owned one but i'd be very wary of buying either of the semi auto's you're thinking of, for my money i'd buy a secondhand 391 beretta

if you want a semi auto, it should cycle the 24 gramme cartridges and if youre lucky the 21's as well and a secondhand one can be picked up

from around £500. o/u most recomend a lanber or miroku for a budget gun or one of the older 686's would be where my money went.

 

Thanks - I'll look around at the 391 and 686s then too !

[Canis]

Youve got a couple of issues here.

 

If your wife wants to shoot more than occaisionally a SGC for her would be sensible as without it she shouldn't at any time have access to the guns apart from at a clay ground (which will allow her to shoot as you do now under a section 11(6) exemtion.

 

Grounds are wary of new shooters with Semi auto's asa greater skill in gun handling isd required to be safe with them. if you really want an auto by all means do it but there are options with O/U at the budget you suggest. There shouldn;'t be any problem with sharing a guin as far as ther ground are concerned but iIt is also unlikeley that a gun that will fit you well will also fit your wife well- a coach would be able to tell you if that is the case but it is unlikely A well fitting gun will caiuse your wife less issues with recoil as well .

 

if it where my money, if you and the wife are taking up the sport together get an O/U EACH spend about £350 for each gun (you will get good second hand lanbers or similar for that money ) and ensure they fit you both.

 

That leaves you with £50 each for Eyes and Ears and a £100 for alterations to get a gun to fit her properly.

Ensure that her gun is set up with a recoil pad (kick eeze or similar ) and start her with 21gram carts

[Anonymouslemming]

i personally wouldn't buy a semi-auto for a first gun, you will have enough to learn without among other things having to worry how many you've still got up the spout so to speak !

with that budget you should be able to buy a decent second hand beretta, with multi chokes - that would be my advice

 

Thanks - I'll look into Beretta options then.

 

Both my wife and I have shot before, but handguns and rifles, not shotguns. We've both had training and have sound safety habits, but you're right - we're learning a new tool, and that has complexity.

[Anonymouslemming]

If your wife wants to shoot more than occaisionally a SGC for her would be sensible as without it she shouldn't at any time have access to the guns apart from at a clay ground (which will allow her to shoot as you do now under a section 11(6) exemtion.

 

Grounds are wary of new shooters with Semi auto's asa greater skill in gun handling isd required to be safe with them. if you really want an auto by all means do it but there are options with O/U at the budget you suggest. There shouldn;'t be any problem with sharing a guin as far as ther ground are concerned but iIt is also unlikeley that a gun that will fit you well will also fit your wife well- a coach would be able to tell you if that is the case but it is unlikely A well fitting gun will caiuse your wife less issues with recoil as well .

 

That is the long term plan - one gun each....

 

if it where my money, if you and the wife are taking up the sport together get an O/U EACH spend about £350 for each gun (you will get good second hand lanbers or similar for that money ) and ensure they fit you both.

 

The long term plan is for her to get her own gun on her own SGC. We wanted to get just one first to be sure that the cert will be granted. We live in East London and we weren't sure that the met would grant the certificate. As it stands, it's about 15 weeks since the application went in. We didn't want to spend the GBP50.00 for her request until we knew that the house and security would be judged as being suitable.

 

That leaves you with £50 each for Eyes and Ears and a £100 for alterations to get a gun to fit her properly.

Ensure that her gun is set up with a recoil pad (kick eeze or similar ) and start her with 21gram carts

 

I thought that eyes and ears were going to be a lot more than that, so that's good news. Thanks for the info!

[Bloke]

A ground may have section 21 approval, but that does not automatically say they will allow a non-licence holder to shoot with you. One of my local grounds won't, they insist that the non-licence holder can only shoot with their coach (at £70 an hour!). You must check with the ground owner first. As far as semi-autos go, none of my local grounds ban them, but the previous posters are absolutely right in the comments about visible safety. I have found it is not just semi-auto holders that don't pick up their cartridges, but it is common courtesy to do so, a magnetic pick up stick is cheap enough. If the ground owner has to pay someone to pick up all the cartridges, they will start charging more per round to pay for their wages. If recoil is your worry, as has been said, for most grounds, 21 gram cartridges in a over and under will be fine. If you get your SGC, you may not need to rush to buy a gun, my local ground has a couple of guns he will lend out to people he knows, for them to try before making a decision. Good luck and happy shooting!

[robbiep]

Regarding you supervising her (this will apply at a lot of grounds, but definitely not all)

 

You would have to be in DIRECT supervision. If you both have guns, and are shooting at the same time (or even if you are on the next stand, waiting to shoot), then you are not supervising her.

For a new SGC holder, the ground would probably insist on you having a lesson with them first, to ensure your safety is OK.

Then, they will almost certainly insist on her having a lesson too, so that they know she is aware of safety.

After that, you would be able to supervise her directly.

 

My wife recently took up shooting, and has her SGC now. My clay gun is a Browning Medallist O/U 12b, she got herself a nice secondhand 20b S/S. Both those together cost well under £800, from a gun shop.

My wife is only 5'3" tall, less than 9 stone, so a heavy 12b gun would be quite tiring for her, as she did find when she started. The 20b is a lot lighter, and she loves shooting it, usually with 24g loads.

[Anonymouslemming]

Thanks for all of the replies - I think I really need to find some grounds within an hour of home.

 

Is it polite to start a second post here asking for gun shop / ground advice or should I ask in this thread? A ground with a number of guns to try would be ideal. I live near City Airport in Newham, London. So far, I've only found http://www.shot-your-trap.co.uk/7.html which lists Essex Gun as their preferred supplier, and I'd like to try a different option as well.

 

Thanks again all!

[100milesaway]

I would certainly go down the road of a couple of o/u rather than a semi auto, unless you are fully coversant with gun maintenance, the semi autos are notorious for jaming up. This would only give you something else to deal with and not a good idea for a novice.. You can always upgrade at a later stage if your misses decides she wants to get more serious about her shooting. A 12 bore will not kick if it is mounted properly, and to this end i would suggest lots of dry mounting at home untill you are happy with the feel of the mount, this also cost nothing but will stand you in good grace for the real thing. If money runs to it ,i would definatly reccommend a couple of lessons with a good coach. from Auntie.

[Anonymouslemming]

I would certainly go down the road of a couple of o/u rather than a semi auto, unless you are fully coversant with gun maintenance, the semi autos are notorious for jaming up. This would only give you something else to deal with and not a good idea for a novice.. You can always upgrade at a later stage if your misses decides she wants to get more serious about her shooting. A 12 bore will not kick if it is mounted properly, and to this end i would suggest lots of dry mounting at home untill you are happy with the feel of the mount, this also cost nothing but will stand you in good grace for the real thing. If money runs to it ,i would definatly reccommend a couple of lessons with a good coach. from Auntie.

 

I've become fairly convinced that it's going to be an o/u now thanks to all the kind folk here.

 

I've already got the initial lessons booked for both my wife and I - the budget I outlined above is just for equipment. 6 lessons each to start with, security and cartridges come out of a separate budget

[robbiep]

I'd suggest starting a new topic, titled 'Anyone know clay grounds within an hour of xxx ?', as a number of people will see that, who may have looked at this thread earlier on, but not be up to date on where it has gone to.

 

Good luck, and enjoy !

[TbirdX]

The wife and myself both shoot semi autos, in the wifes case, it's her first and only gun. I wouldn't get too hung up on the type. Get what suits you...although, how you will know that as a newbie is somewhat guess work.

 

Give me a shout via pm and maybe we can arrange for you to come up the M11 one sunday and have a bash with a 12g and 20g semi and an O/U on the practice stand at our local ground. Might give you an idea as to the idosyncracies of each type.