Can i adjust the amount of neck that is sized?

[jam1e]

Another question if i may fellas.

Please bear with me as i try and explain my issue as best i can.

To try and cut a long story as short as possible, i made up a batch of .204 Ruger rounds using IMR 8208 powder and 32 grain heads. But the oal on several of the rounds ended up being a few thou less than i wanted. I appreciate they would still be accurate enough to give a fox a good old whack at 100 yards plus. However, i wanted the best possible consistency as i was trying to find the most accurate load. As such i put these few "short" rounds to one side in my safe. Since then i have purchased a Kinetic hammer and intended to remove the bullet heads/powder and re-make the rounds. (Just to add that this was more of a learning curve exercise)

It took around 40 hard whacks of the hammer onto concrete to remove the heads! Is this usual?? I thought i was going to brake the Kinetic hammer!

Having done a little research, i'm pondering on whether my following conclusion is right. And if you folks agree or not and could offer me your constructive opinions.

So. Here is my theory. If it should only take a few "whacks" of the hammer to remove the bullet. Does this indicate that i'm neck sizing all, or too much of the cartridge neck? I have had what i believe and been told to be at least one sign of over-pressure when firing a moderate load. The Lee manual states the low end of the charge at 27.5 grains© to 29 grains ©. The sticky rounds came with a charge of 28 grains. As in the rounds were cycled easily into the chamber with no stiffness on closing the bolt. Yet after firing the rounds, they were mildly difficult to cycle out of the chamber, with the bolt being stiff. (There were no further signs of o/p)

The action i took to set-up the Redding Neck Sizer in my single action Lee press was as follows -

I raised the ram all the way up as far as it would go with my shell holder in place. I then screwed the neck die all the way down until it touched the shell holder. I then lowered the ram and screwed the die in a further 1/8" of a inch. Would i be right in thinking that the ram would "overcam" slightly now due to the extra 1/8" turn of the die, thus making the die size the whole of the neck? And if this is the case i presume now winding the die out by around 1/4" would mean less of the neck will be sized, and i would have less pressure build up before the brass releases the bullet??

Constructive advice would be appreciated folks.

Just to add that i followed the die/Lee instructions for setting the die.

Thanks

Jamie

[Redgum]

Still having problems old mate. Basically you need to follow the directions supplied with the Redding neck sizing die, I didnt think you could adjust neck tension on the Reddings, maybe totally wrong but don't they supply a bunch of differant sized shell holders to fine tune neck tension (at an additional price). The tension should be the same down the neck and not just part of it. The great thing with the lee collet neck sizing die is that it squeezes the neck against a mandril.

Not knocking you but it seems a little odd that you are having so many problems with what should be a not so complicated process. I can't really understand what the problem is. You should set the redding die to the manufacturers instructions, seat the bullet OAL from manual, the loaded ammo will not measure the same due to variations in the bullet ends, especially soft points, its the Ogive thats important, were the dia of bullet touchs rifle lands. Theres no law saying that you will not have pressure issues before the manual states high pressure but you should find an accurate load before this point. Maybe an idea to have a little session with someone who has a bit of experience with reloading. It should not be that complicated.

 

Ps what powder, primers and bullets are you using

Edited January 14, 2013 by Redgum

[sixhills 69]

I load 223 and 243 i use Lee Dies now my brass is fireformed i only neck size both cases i check the lenght and trim if needed Then Clean Re-prime Powder Bullet seating and job done i have no over pressure problems and both calibers shoot sub 1inch groups at 100yrds.

I never get a perfect COAL as the bullets are slightly different in size but they all group the same and kill well I think you need some one to look at your setup and check your loads are you still seem to be having lots of problems have you got a reloading centre near you that you could call into? I believe some gunshops do a basic course and set you up with what you need and how to do it.

[jam1e]

Hi Redgum! thanks for the replies fellas.

Not so much as having problems, more a case of being too inquisitive, and being a pain in the *** asking too many questions!

I've probably shot around 150-200 of my reloads now with the best grouping being .4" (give or take zero point something?) which is better than the factory rounds, which is what i wanted to achieve.

This thread was started due to something i read on another forum, (think a usa site, but can no longer find it) Someone was having problems with perceived over pressure. It was suggested that he "ease back the die so only a third of the neck is sized). As i have a few rounds that were stiff some weeks ago, combined with the kinetic hammer needing alot of "blows" i thought that may have been the cause of the hammer issue and stiffness with the bolt after firing that i have.

My Mrs thinks i'm sad, but i love reloading! Have to admit that i find deburing a chore and boring if i'm doing a fair few. But i really enjoy the rest of it! Probably sounds sad, but it's kind of therapeutic! Infact i even weigh all my bullet heads and have them in equal weght batches!

I know the Lee manual isn't the "bible" and even low loads can cause over-pressure. But i like to use it to keep matters safe...

 

Going back to my initial post. Is it usual to have to strike the kinetic hammer 30-40 odd times to extract the bullet??

 

Redgum. I'm using the last few of my Magtech primers, before i start my CCI. When my .32 Sierra bk ran out i moved over to .32 Hornady v-max bullets as i understood thats what Remington use in the Accu-tip rounds which gave me the best grouping. So i wanted to duplicate that round as best i could for accuracy. As it turned out although Hornady bullets were slightly more accurate there was very little difference between them.

I have Hodgdons BLC2 powder and IMR 8208 XBR. I've no idea on the speed of the rounds with either powder but accuracy means more to me.

I've found the IMR to be more accurate so i use it for long range rabbits and corvids. I had a 207 yard rabbit last week. My best ever!

BLC2 still gives good accuracy but i use it for fox rounds as they're obviously a bigger target.

Cheers

Jamie

Just to add that as someone has just pointed out to me, that as i've been neck sizing after fire forming and reloading the brass a few times, it may well just need full length resizing again, to ease the stiff bolt, then back to neck sizing.

Edited January 14, 2013 by jam1e

[Redgum]

I would forget what you have read in the US magazine, your not alone, I was exactly the same when I started off reloading. They will feel stiff going(bullets into chamber) in if they need full resizing, stiff coming out if over pressure ( my missus would just be happy with a little stiff either way ). I know I have said this before but consistancy is the key, if you have a rnd that will hit sub half inch then your there. Sometimes you have a bad day and your shooting just isnt up to it, its easy to blame something wrong with the loading, being consistant with your loads will only leave the 'you' factor'. Changing primers needs the same approach as a new load, some primers will increase pressure, cci's are a good, steady not to hot primer and I find them dead reliable. In my first few months of reloading I was putting easily forty rnds a week at targets, now I have the loads sorted I just do a bit of zeroing to check set up and that is usually bang on. It gets a bit boring as you want to keep playing with your reloading kit but after a while you will learn to stop playing around with a good load . Of course there is no reason you can't keep experimenting with differant powders, primers and bullet weights until the lead rattles down the smooth barrel hardly touching the sides but there comes a point when a hunting rifle reaches its limits and you have to start thinking about target quality barrels etc.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Redgum

[cockercas]

If your necks are to tight when you seat the bullet it will expand the neck to a thousand of an inch grip.

[jam1e]

I would forget what you have read in the US magazine, your not alone, I was exactly the same when I started off reloading. They will feel stiff going(bullets into chamber) in if they need full resizing, stiff coming out if over pressure ( my missus would just be happy with a little stiff either way ). I know I have said this before but consistancy is the key, if you have a rnd that will hit sub half inch then your there. Sometimes you have a bad day and your shooting just isnt up to it, its easy to blame something wrong with the loading, being consistant with your loads will only leave the 'you' factor'. Changing primers needs the same approach as a new load, some primers will increase pressure, cci's are a good, steady not to hot primer and I find them dead reliable. In my first few months of reloading I was putting easily forty rnds a week at targets, now I have the loads sorted I just do a bit of zeroing to check set up and that is usually bang on. It gets a bit boring as you want to keep playing with your reloading kit but after a while you will learn to stop playing around with a good load . Of course there is no reason you can't keep experimenting with differant powders, primers and bullet weights until the lead rattles down the smooth barrel hardly touching the sides but there comes a point when a hunting rifle reaches its limits and you have to start thinking about target quality barrels etc.

 

"my missus would just be happy with a little stiff either way"

I've had enough of messing about with various loads now....ish!.... If the CCI primers are ok anyhow. Then when the BLC2 runs out i'll stick to the IMR 8208. I'll stick with the Hornady heads to. Probably best as my local rfd struggles with Sierra head supplies.

But then i wouldn't mind finding a 39-40 grain load to, for windy days... Would i achieve the same impact point Don't want to get bored!

 

If your necks are to tight when you seat the bullet it will expand the neck to a thousand of an inch grip.

 

Cheers Cockercas

Edited January 14, 2013 by jam1e

[Redgum]

I shoot 100gr and 85gr bullets in 243 and poi isnt much differance at 100yds, actually there aint a massive amount of differance at 200yds. If you are finding it hard to get bullet heads then get your allowance put up a bit and buy a few hundred from Norman Clarks at the CLA,if you call them in advance they will put them on their van. The CLA is at Ragley Hall, just up the road from you, pop into the deer fund tent for a cup of tea or a beer and we can have a chat on loading.

[al4x]

The simple answer is you could have just knocked the rounds out a few thou and then put them back in the die to the correct length. However the variation could well be in the bullet itself hence the use of a comparator so you measure to a set point on the bullet. It is normal to take a fair bit of effort to pull a bullet entirely

[kent]

I wasn't going to reply to this but - stiffness in the bolt after firing but not on closing is OVERPRESSURE if you want to hurt yourself carry on if not get hands on help from someone who knows what they are talking about. high pressure is not just as simple as too much powder how the thing is put together, components and the gun itself can make a heap of difference. You might well be one small step away from disaster- it happens!

[kent]

Its like giving Frank Spencer a Sinclair catalogue and waiting for the ambulance

:lol: :lol: , Still its a serious matter!

[Hornet 6]

Kinetic hammers, they can be a real pain to use, as you have discovered.

What you use as an anvil can have a big impact, you want something with a little give, to hard and it just bounces.

I used to use one and found the best thing to hit was the copper end of a big copper/hide mallet.

Assuming you are right handed, hold the mallet in your left hand, and strike the kinetic hammer against it, usually one or two good wacks will shift even a crimped bullet.

The lighter the bullet the harder you have to work at it.

 

The different thickness shell holders are for adjusting the amount you bump the shoulder back by when full length sizing, not for neck sizing.

 

 

Neil.

[cockercas]

difficult to cycle out of the chamber, with the bolt being stiff. (There were no further signs of o/p)

 

What dose this tell you?.

Then what happens in the summer months?

 

Edited January 15, 2013 by cockercas

[jam1e]

I wasn't going to reply to this but - stiffness in the bolt after firing but not on closing is OVERPRESSURE if you want to hurt yourself carry on if not get hands on help from someone who knows what they are talking about. high pressure is not just as simple as too much powder how the thing is put together, components and the gun itself can make a heap of difference. You might well be one small step away from disaster- it happens!

 

Thats good as i don't usually see/read them as you're on the "ignore" list........

The same goes for kent and fister. I've never had time for pretentious, arrogant self righteous people.

It does make me chuckle the way you 3 (and sometimes another) behave on this forum. It's like having 3 little "Yodas" surfing all the threads/posts, deciding who's worthy of your imput. And how outraged "you" get if anyone dares to question your imput. Usually followed by 10+ posts as you try to convince that person that they should be grateful you even thought them worthy of your imput, and they should just gracefully accept it.

It may come as a shock to you 3, but reloading isnt "rocket science" or like making an I.E.D! And best you 3 sit on a bench like "Hear no, see no, speak no" for this one!! There are others on here who know as much as you 3 and probably possible more!

I know! It's mad isn't it!

So do me a favour "Yodas" DON'T REPLY TO MY THREADS!

atb

Jamie

 

Kinetic hammers, they can be a real pain to use, as you have discovered.

What you use as an anvil can have a big impact, you want something with a little give, to hard and it just bounces.

I used to use one and found the best thing to hit was the copper end of a big copper/hide mallet.

Assuming you are right handed, hold the mallet in your left hand, and strike the kinetic hammer against it, usually one or two good wacks will shift even a crimped bullet.

The lighter the bullet the harder you have to work at it.

 

The different thickness shell holders are for adjusting the amount you bump the shoulder back by when full length sizing, not for neck sizing.

 

 

Neil.

Thanks for the imput Hornet 6!

[jam1e]

I shoot 100gr and 85gr bullets in 243 and poi isnt much differance at 100yds, actually there aint a massive amount of differance at 200yds. If you are finding it hard to get bullet heads then get your allowance put up a bit and buy a few hundred from Norman Clarks at the CLA,if you call them in advance they will put them on their van. The CLA is at Ragley Hall, just up the road from you, pop into the deer fund tent for a cup of tea or a beer and we can have a chat on loading.

Cheers Redgum.

Now i've moved over to Hornady heads i've no issues with supply of them.

You're right about the CLA being local to me. I've never been to be honest. I've had a look on the web about the show there and it looks pretty good.

Thanks for the offer. If i go i'll take you up on the offer of a chat over a beer. Much appreciated

[jam1e]

I wasn't going to reply to this but - stiffness in the bolt after firing but not on closing is OVERPRESSURE if you want to hurt yourself carry on if not get hands on help from someone who knows what they are talking about. high pressure is not just as simple as too much powder how the thing is put together, components and the gun itself can make a heap of difference. You might well be one small step away from disaster- it happens!

Although i've no time for you, i will conceed that i should have been abit more clear in my post regarding overpressure. That was with 28 grains of powder. Since then i've dropped to 27.5 grains to stay safe. I've lost a tiny bit of accuracy but at least i've not had any further overpressure issues.

I was hoping it was due to neck sizing hence the post. If it was and i corrected it i would be able to slightly increase the powder and regain the slight loss of accuracy. NOW **** ***!!

[cockercas]

 

 

Thats good as i don't usually see/read them as you're on the "ignore" list........

The same goes for kent and fister. I've never had time for pretentious, arrogant self righteous people.

Il keep of your threads to then.

Fister is the guy who I go to when i need help/advice. Pretentious, arrogant and self righteous he is not. The blokes a gent and i hold his opinion in the highest regard.

Have fun. I look forward to the thread titeld. Ive lost an eye/hand/face.

[pestcontrol1]

handbags

[jam1e]

Il keep of your threads to then.

Fister is the guy who I go to when i need help/advice. Pretentious, arrogant and self righteous he is not. The blokes a gent and i hold his opinion in the highest regard.

Have fun. I look forward to the thread titeld. Ive lost an eye/hand/face.

[pestcontrol1]

I always liked the Fawlty Tower's line when Basil spoke to Sybil;

 

"Handbag, Knuckle dusters, Flick-knife?"

:lol:

[MAG1]

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/55286-Reloading-session-with-Yorkshire-school-of-reloading

 

[MAG1]

http://www.1967spud.com/

 

[sixhills 69]

• 
  
• 387 posts
  
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• From:Stratford On Avon
  

Posted Today, 07:08 PM

 

kent, on 15 January 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

 

I wasn't going to reply to this but - stiffness in the bolt after firing but not on closing is OVERPRESSURE if you want to hurt yourself carry on if not get hands on help from someone who knows what they are talking about. high pressure is not just as simple as too much powder how the thing is put together, components and the gun itself can make a heap of difference. You might well be one small step away from disaster- it happens!

 

Thats good as i don't usually see/read them as you're on the "ignore" list........

The same goes for kent and fister. I've never had time for pretentious, arrogant self righteous people.

It does make me chuckle the way you 3 (and sometimes another) behave on this forum. It's like having 3 little "Yodas" surfing all the threads/posts, deciding who's worthy of your imput. And how outraged "you" get if anyone dares to question your imput. Usually followed by 10+ posts as you try to convince that person that they should be grateful you even thought them worthy of your imput, and they should just gracefully accept it.

It may come as a shock to you 3, but reloading isnt "rocket science" or like making an I.E.D! And best you 3 sit on a bench like "Hear no, see no, speak no" for this one!! There are others on here who know as much as you 3 and probably possible more!

I know! It's mad isn't it!

So do me a favour "Yodas" DON'T REPLY TO MY THREADS!

atb

Jamie

 

Why come onto a forum just to slate members that are trying to help you fiister has more knowledge and is a resepectable person you carn't even get the basic right and you are rude why do people bother with you

Good Luck you will need it sixhills 69

Edited January 15, 2013 by sixhills 69

[Amazed]

Advice is given to be listened to, building your OWN knowledge base.

So some advice. apologise to those who are trying to help you !

go back to the beginning and don't get too far infront of what you are confident in doing safely. You know the dangers and the warning signs.

It's not rocket sicence your correct.

But neither are fireworks and how many are mamed each year ?

Edited January 16, 2013 by Amazed

[Redgum]

Il keep of your threads to then.

Fister is the guy who I go to when i need help/advice. Pretentious, arrogant and self righteous he is not. The blokes a gent and i hold his opinion in the highest regard.

Have fun. I look forward to the thread titeld. Ive lost an eye/hand/face.

 

Big of ya mate looking forward to a thread of someones misfortune, I can understand why the lad spat the dummy and I completly agree with his comments on the yoda characters. There are ways to guide someone onto the right track and there are ways to intimidate individuals if you think you know so much better. I have been helped no end on this forum but have also heard some absolute rubbish. There are several on this forum I would love to go out shooting with, just to see, after all of their bragging, they know which way the bullet goes in the chamber.