chacotawas Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I'm a beginner and I guess this is a beginner's question. I see vids. on the forum and on YouTube of people head-shooting decoyed pigeons with FAC airguns. But are .22LR r/f rifles ever used for this, and if so, which of the two rifle types is the better for the purpose? I read somewhere that the air rifles have the edge for accuracy (at about 60-70 yds I guess). True? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Ive used my .22 rimfire for pigeons, deeks on the muck pile as if searching for worms/clover, brings them down well if no crops to shoot over, you don't need head shots, they aint flying off after being hit with a eley sub sonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenj Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I have shot pigeons with decoys on one of my permissions, where the corner of a field has a hedged ditch on one side and ivy covered trees on the other. I placed a couple of flock decoys in the ivy and eight on the ground facing up wind close to the ivy. It's always best with a decent west wind. I also scattered sweet corn on the ground around the decoys. I covered the inside of the ditch with my net and lay under it in cammo gear and cap. This worked well with my Webley Venom Viper .22, which I'd fitted with a extra moderator. The rifle is only rated at 12ft lb and I was shooting Bisley magnums at 25 to 35 yards. Sometimes the birds came down, wandering around, other days they wouldn't settle. I shot five in one sitting on a very windy day. That doesn't answer your immediate question, but I have repeated this with my Magtech 7022 .22lr semi, once I got the moderator sorted out, shooting from 50 to 60 yards, again down wind on a windy day. A bolt action rifle would be better as they are quieter than a semi. Check out http://www.urbanfieldsportsman.com/index.php/magtech-7022-mossberg-7022-22-semi-automatic-rimfire/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I have shot pigeons with decoys on one of my permissions, where the corner of a field has a hedged ditch on one side and ivy covered trees on the other. I placed a couple of flock decoys in the ivy and eight on the ground facing up wind close to the ivy. It's always best with a decent west wind. I also scattered sweet corn on the ground around the decoys. I covered the inside of the ditch with my net and lay under it in cammo gear and cap. This worked well with my Webley Venom Viper .22, which I'd fitted with a extra moderator. The rifle is only rated at 12ft lb and I was shooting Bisley magnums at 25 to 35 yards. Sometimes the birds came down, wandering around, other days they wouldn't settle. I shot five in one sitting on a very windy day. That doesn't answer your immediate question, but I have repeated this with my Magtech 7022 .22lr semi, once I got the moderator sorted out, shooting from 50 to 60 yards, again down wind on a windy day. A bolt action rifle would be better as they are quieter than a semi. Check out http://www.urbanfiel...omatic-rimfire/ Always handy to know the law before shooting or recommending someone to break it , by putting out sweetcorn to attract the birds to shoot , you are committing an offence , so not particularly wise to advertise the fact on a open forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I'm a beginner and I guess this is a beginner's question. I see vids. on the forum and on YouTube of people head-shooting decoyed pigeons with FAC airguns. But are .22LR r/f rifles ever used for this, and if so, which of the two rifle types is the better for the purpose? I read somewhere that the air rifles have the edge for accuracy (at about 60-70 yds I guess). True? Its total rubbish that FAC airguns are more accurate than .22 LR at any range. But you have to compare apples with apples take a top of the range FAC air with the best ammo against a bettered old .22 lr with trash ammo and you might get that result. I have owned and used both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salizar Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Always handy to know the law before shooting or recommending someone to break it , by putting out sweetcorn to attract the birds to shoot , you are committing an offence , so not particularly wise to advertise the fact on a open forum. does this mean it’s illegal to use food to bait any vermin to be shot? i.e. rabbit carcass for say fox or corvids J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 all birds are protected, its just they are on general licence. Not sure about the feeding thing as 100000 of crows are shot over a dead rabbit or lamb every year. Its perfectly legal for vermin BUT birds aint vermin they are protected birds killed on licence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 as already stated, using food ie corn for pigeon decoying is illegal, but its ok to use a dead rabbit on crows in very simple terms, all birds are protected by law, even the species we shoot for sport or control for conservation reasons, the law then specifically allows certain species to be killed or taken or kept in captivity for certain purposes, however different laws apply to what we call pest species, so they can be killed or taken at any time of the year. if you shoot or trap pest species you need to read up on the general license, using the "I didn't know" excuse will not stand up in a court of law always makes me cringe when we see posts about shooting birds in the garden or from a bird table, yet make a remark and get jumped on for trying to offer advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 why is it ok to bait crows in with a dead rabbit (crow food) but not ok to bait in pigeons with the likes of corn (pigeon food)? No trick questions I'm just interested in why its seen as different and "ok" to use a dead rabbit or the like to bait in crows... to me thats the same as using corn to bait in pigeons. I dont and never have used anything to bring in birds to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenj Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 We live and learn. At that spot I first shot them there, when they were feeding on ivy berries. That was legal as they'd fallen off the tree. Sorry guys, I don't want to cause arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alendil Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 pigeon = bird= protected/not legal baiting crow=corvid=vermin/legal baiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 why is it ok to bait crows in with a dead rabbit (crow food) but not ok to bait in pigeons with the likes of corn (pigeon food)? No trick questions I'm just interested in why its seen as different and "ok" to use a dead rabbit or the like to bait in crows... to me thats the same as using corn to bait in pigeons. I dont and never have used anything to bring in birds to me... because that's what the general license states, no different from any of the hundred other stupid laws that are in Britain you may say, a dead rabbit is possibly there from dying naturally, and crows being corvids will come in for it, where as placing food out for pigeons is bringing them into a place they normally wouldn't settle its no different from the crazy law, that you can use a blown crow caller, but not an electrical one, it don't make sense, but to keep within the law, we do need to stick to the rules, either that, OR DON'T POST ABOUT IT ON AN OPEN FORUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJon Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 pigeon = bird= protected/not legal baiting crow=corvid=vermin/legal baiting I thought crows where on the GL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 We live and learn. At that spot I first shot them there, when they were feeding on ivy berries. That was legal as they'd fallen off the tree. Sorry guys, I don't want to cause arguments. And learning is why I pointed it out , not having a go as such , but if these things are not pointed out to those who do not know better then they never will know and risk getting themselves in trouble or as you did pass on poor advice to someone else . We all have had to learn sometime or other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alendil Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I thought crows where on the GL? yes as pigeons but it is ok to put dead rabbit for corvids but it is not ok to put corn for pigeons rules are rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I have used the 22 lr for pigeon a few times and it works fine if you know where they will land or can get them to land. I found it was just easier to get a shot gun and leave the rimmy for the rabbits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 because that's what the general license states, no different from any of the hundred other stupid laws that are in Britain you may say, a dead rabbit is possibly there from dying naturally, and crows being corvids will come in for it, where as placing food out for pigeons is bringing them into a place they normally wouldn't settle its no different from the crazy law, that you can use a blown crow caller, but not an electrical one, it don't make sense, but to keep within the law, we do need to stick to the rules, either that, OR DON'T POST ABOUT IT ON AN OPEN FORUM Having read the general license I see no reference to baiting corvids being legal, corvids are listed the same as pigeon, you may kill them if they cause danger to health, damage etc etc, no mention anywhere about them being treat any differently to pigeon. As has been said above all birds are protected equally in this country unless on the general license, where does it say corvids can be treated different to any other bird on the list? And saying the rabbit "might" have been there through natural cause is by the by as many openly discuss and use the dead rabbit as a way of baiting in corvids and it is common belief shown here that its fine to bait corvids... you could say the same for pigeon food being there naturally unless proven otherwise. Where is this law that says corvids can be baited? I'm not being an ar*e or the like, I am genuinely interested in the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 To be fair, were does it say pigeons cannot be baited- ferals are often trapped in mass using baited traps. Perhaps it just because we don't bait woodies, not because its legal. ALL BIRDS ARE PROTECTED INCLUDING CROWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 If I go shooting Pigeons or Crows I will always take along a 12ft/lbs Air-Rifle as I think this is good enough for any runners after being hit with Shotgun or any that have landed in nearby Trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chacotawas Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I guess my question got lost under a pile of sweetcorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I guess my question got lost under a pile of sweetcorn Pretty standard for pw to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I've just looked at the BASC pigeon shooting guide and it mentions nothing about baiting them been illegal and if it doesn't mention it in the general licence how are you meant to know. maybe it's just one of them things which is deemed 'unsporting' and over time been taken as law by shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I've shot them with my rimfire but if I was planing on doing it regularly would go for fac air, that was you can also shoot them in barns or out of trees safely too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) I'd also go FAC air rather than 22lr for pigeon. Doing some google searching for pigeon baiting why you cant do that but its ok to bait corvids... still nothing set in stone tho... http://forums.pigeon...pigeon-baiting/ http://forums.pigeon...it-with-decoys/ The most interesting quote from the above thread is... "Been covered on here a few times. It isn't illegal to use bait to shoot a bird under the General Licenses. Many or most don't agree with baiting pigeons but a lot will happily bait corvids. There is no difference in the law. Read the GL carefully yourself. I also have written confirmation from Natural England. Before anyone jumps down my thoat, I have never baited pigeons and am not encouraging anyone else to do it. I just like to understand what the law actually is - rather than what someone down the pub says. " http://forums.pigeon...25-pigion-bait/ Edited February 17, 2013 by thepasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I'm a beginner and I guess this is a beginner's question. I see vids. on the forum and on YouTube of people head-shooting decoyed pigeons with FAC airguns. But are .22LR r/f rifles ever used for this, and if so, which of the two rifle types is the better for the purpose? I read somewhere that the air rifles have the edge for accuracy (at about 60-70 yds I guess). True? Biggest problem is the ricochet of .22lr and lack of backstops. If you are decoying woodpigeon/ferals, then use a shotgun as you can shoot on the ground and in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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