kennym Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Vipa - I suspect Kenny is watching something on one of the children's channels. Gordon if you saw the first 10 minutes of that program i'd like to think you you wouldnt say such a thing, not funny. Sully I'm done answering you ...... the answer to gun crime is more guns...... crack on mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Kenny - lost me, but logic is not your strongest suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Kenny - lost me, but logic is not your strongest suit. Classy! I'm not the one thats lost, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) In fairness to Kenny... Any foreign reporting on US gun laws and attriocities is going to be 'anti' biased, mainly because unless you are an american I really don't think it is possible to 'get it' on a cultural level... the reporting will always be driven by the mindset of the nationality of the presenter/producers.. I was however moved to tears during the first 10 mins of the program, it was horrific, uneccesary and sadly, avoidable. If the slaughter of those young children doesn't stir deep and painful emotions then you have a real problem. All I could do was imagine how I would feel if any of my 4 kids had been on that 'list!' I simply couldn't... I have no base line reference to that sort of pain! At some point the question has to be asked.... at what cost do certain personal liberties and freedoms start to become *too* expensive... I would suggest this is an example of the line becoming very blurred... but.... that is a Brit passing a comment on an alien culture he knows little about! Edited March 12, 2013 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'll go back and read this thread after I post my initial thought on the subject. They may as well arm certain people/teachers in schools as far as I can see. The USA has gone too far down the road of guns solve everything to turn the tide so you may as well give teachers and schoolkids a fighting chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Gordon if you saw the first 10 minutes of that program i'd like to think you you wouldnt say such a thing, not funny. Sully I'm done answering you ...... the answer to gun crime is more guns. If you say so. Give me your solution to the problem ennym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I have no base line reference to that sort of pain! I have,having lost a child.Are you willing to give up your firearms or agree to tigher regulation to ensure the risk of another school shooting is reduced?After all,that's what is being proposed here.Remember,the more guns in circulation,the higher the risk,according to some. If you're not willing,then care to explain why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) I have,having lost a child. Are you willing to give up your firearms or agree to tigher regulation to ensure the risk of another school shooting is reduced?After all,that's what is being proposed here.Remember,the more guns in circulation,the higher the risk,according to some. If you're not willing,then care to explain why? As I have already stated... I am not culturally equipped to answer that question... I don'tthink any of us are, we are used to such draconian restrictions that in reality we cannot really fully comprehend the American system... We think we can, and between that and what we have, we see it as something desirable...... I fear the reality is far removed from the image Applied to this country then yes, I was a pistol shooter and now I am not, whilst I didn't actively support the ban, neither did I actively oppose it...... I would like the freedom to be able to shoot pistols again but by the same respect I am also quite happy that they are no longer available.. Do I feel that the public are safer because of the ban... Yes a little but then we could argue for ever more that there are other things just as higher risk if not higher that should, on that basis, also be banned What I would say however is that loved ones, particularly children, being slaughtered by some one with guns has a different, more sinister taste than say death in a car crash.. In answer to your question... Would I be willing to give up my guns..... Yes if that's what was on the table... I see children's lives as somewhat more important than my freedom to shoot guns. Edited March 13, 2013 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) .. Dupe Edited March 13, 2013 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) In answer to your question... Would I be willing to give up my guns..... Yes if that's what was on the table... I see children's lives as somewhat more important than my freedom to shoot guns. But you wont......until the proposal is on the table.A proposal which wont give any of us any alternatives.Aren't we part of the problem then? I believe you Vipa,in that you care,but obviously not enough to surrender your firearms as an example to us all,and campaign for the even stricter legislation of our firearms.But neither you nor I consider ourselves part of the problem do we,yet others do. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if Bird had walked into his nearest primary school with his .22 and double-ejector shotgun,instead of onto the high street,after all,there were no controls in place to prevent this....and there still aren't,despite what anyone says. If handguns were the problem in the UK,then why wasn't the ban throughout the UK?Politics perhaps? The problems in America are more deeply rooted than merely the availability of firearms;they've got some work on their hands. Edited March 13, 2013 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 But you wont......until the proposal is on the table.A proposal which wont give any of us any alternatives.Aren't we part of the problem then? I believe you Vipa,in that you care,but obviously not enough to surrender your firearms as an example to us all,and campaign for the even stricter legislation of our firearms.But neither you nor I consider ourselves part of the problem do we,yet others do. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if Bird had walked into his nearest primary school with his .22 and double-ejector shotgun,instead of onto the high street,after all,there were no controls in place to prevent this....and there still aren't,despite what anyone says. If handguns were the problem in the UK,then why wasn't the ban throughout the UK?Politics perhaps? The problems in America are more deeply rooted than merely the availability of firearms;they've got some work on their hands. You have made some incredibly salient points there Scully, none of which I could argue with.. The only additional thing I would throw into the melting pot is that... personally, I feel that in Britain the risk is now at an acceptable level and wouldn't feel it necessary to make a token gesture and hand in my ticket, mainly due to the tight controls and low numbers of firearms out there... the USA is a whole other beast.... In this world the best we can do is mitigate risk as best as possible... we have a reasonably good balance here, in the USA they desperately need to find that balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 The thing I have always found strange about the US is the casual way they treat guns. They leave them loaded around the house because they feel they need them for defence. Yet strangely large swathes of America is rural, sleepy to the point of being dopey and very crime free. Switzerland does have a very high rate of gun possession (not actually ownership because a lot are owned by the government) but they have to be strictly locked away in cabinets. The Swiss are not paranoid about this self defence issue which seems to be key to the American problem. The Americans are now stock piling ammo and buying up assault rifles because they fear civil unrest is coming.That could end very badly and to an extent becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. There you have the difference in my opinion Not strictly true. They are buying stuff before it gets banned (personally, I think they are wrong and nothing will be), not because their fear civil unrest next week. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Indeed, Bans normally allow you to grandfather weapons in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 You have made some incredibly salient points there Scully, none of which I could argue with.. The only additional thing I would throw into the melting pot is that... personally, I feel that in Britain the risk is now at an acceptable level and wouldn't feel it necessary to make a token gesture and hand in my ticket, mainly due to the tight controls and low numbers of firearms out there... the USA is a whole other beast.... In this world the best we can do is mitigate risk as best as possible... we have a reasonably good balance here, in the USA they desperately need to find that balance Fair enough;I can't argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 What is untrue? Police officers receive weapon training and ongoing range time. As long as you have proof of identity and residency and no convictions for a felony you may buy a gun. I am not sure what you are taking issue with. Nick The point is that there are restrictions and quite a few of them depending where in the US you are. There are restrictions relating to purchase, possession, transfer (person to person and inter-state), manufacturing, use, storage, etc, etc. The situation described in your third sentence is pretty much the same as here. The only difference being that you be able to demonstrate 'good reason' for possession of section 1 guns and virtually everyone who applies can do so. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Indeed, Bans normally allow you to grandfather weapons in the US. Most of the 'bans' the Americans enact are not even bans to begin with. The last 'assault weapons' ban was directed at cosmetic features and not functionality. Actually, I don't even think it was as restrictive as a grandfather clause which is one whereby you can keep itr but not sell it. The last AW ban allowed (I think) existing AW's to be sold to anyone who could legally buy a rifle but prevented new AW's being sold. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Like I said I'm happy with our gun laws No real need to change them, just implement them properly & promptly Who actually said we should hand our tickets in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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