shooting insurance

[Dazza9t9]

I'm in the same boat at the moment. I am looking for insurance. This is my first years shooting, I will be doing clay shooting, pigeon shooting and driven shoot when the season comes around. I have had a look at BASC and country alliance due to their knowledge but I have also looked at CCC and the Scottish shooting associate who are both half the price of the others.

 

In principle I just need insurance, however as it is my first year I am thinking it maybe more of an idea to join one of the bigger organisations.

 

Due to my personal circumstances it is highly unlikely to have my licence revoked however I am not that arrogant to think it could never happen.

 

However it is highly likely I am going to need help and advice at some point on shooting.

 

Due to the need of buying everything at the moment, It would be easier on the pocket to join one of the lower costs but I think it will have to be BASC

 

Following this thread with interest

[Livefast123]

I left CCC this year due to the price hike and joined SACS instead and get free membership for my daughter.

[clayman]

Just had a renewal through for CCC, shame to see it's up to nearly £30 for the year, I knew this would happen as it gained in popularity.

 

Wasn't it around £23 around a year ago. That's a serious price hike if it was.

 

Yes, - we have tried hard to hold our price as competitively as possible, but the underwriting section for this type of insurance has become very nervous about risk exposure following some very substantial claims in the sector ( not claims on CCC3, but compatible other providers). We take quotes every year from the insurance panel covering the sector, and the basic premium hike this year for our master policy is 200% up on our first premium ( over £30,000 this year vs just £10k when we started 5 years ago). We have absorbed the majority of this increase as increasing membership dilutes our underlying costs between members to some degree, and continuing investment in automation of our service keeps administration costs low. We have also managed to increase some limits of cover and get increased legal assistance within our policies as some offset to the premium increases, so we believe we still offer one of the most comprehensive insurance bundles at a very competitive price. We suspect the whole industry will see similar increases to base premiums that need to be handed onto memberships of all organisations, as the underwriting group for this type of insurance is very small, and other providers are likely to be seeing similar increases as their annual policy reviews come into place.

[David BASC]

I am very sure the BASC liability policy will not go up by 200% or anything like it at renewal time in July.

 

I agree the market for this type of cover is not massive and that large claims in our sector can have an impact, the fact remains that the cost of covering claims is going up and there are increasing pressures on how claims are handled from the Ministry of Justice for example.

 

A small premium can easily be wiped out by a single claim or a few small claims. Based on my experience over the past 17 years, the average shooting claim runs at about £10,000 at the moment, with the largest claim I know of running t just over £1 million. The insurance market knows this and need to set premiums accordingly.

 

David

[clayman]

No I'm sure it wont - our 200% base premium increase is the increment over 5 yrs, steady increases every year reflecting underwriters nervousness about the market place following increasing claim payouts.

 

BASC membership includes many other cost benefits for members, so increases to the base liability cover premium per member may be absorbed or reflected as a far lower percentage increase than occurred with CCC3. BASC's importance in the market place cannot be over emphasised, as the political lobby keeps the countryside safe and available for legitimate pursuits. Certain organisations including BACS lead the lobby in this respect but need member revenue to achieve this.

 

On the otherside, CCC3 fills a market for lower cost no frills membership of an organisation providing a broad spectrum of country pursuits P/L, P/A and legal covers. Between CCC3, C-A, SACS, BASC and some others there are products and pricing for everyone, and even though I'm a Director of CCC3, I'm still a BASC member as well!

[David BASC]

We are fortunate that overall the loss ratio on the BASC policy is at a level that the underwriters are happy with, so no nasty sharp premium increases!

 

I think it’s important for there to be a choice, not that the difference of about 50p a week between the cost of BASC membership and the less expensive options mounts to much in reality, the fact there is a choice keeps us all on our toes!

 

David

[Lord Geordie]

BASC all the way for Me

 

May seem expensive, but! How many of the others come out in defence of our sport in the Media?

 

How many others are a click or a call away when you need help understanding certain conditions of the GL?

 

Possibly the best legal team to have behind you if you end up in some form of legal wrangle too.

 

Worth every red cent IMHO.

[Muddy Funker]

Yes, - we have tried hard to hold our price as competitively as possible, but the underwriting section for this type of insurance has become very nervous about risk exposure following some very substantial claims in the sector ( not claims on CCC3, but compatible other providers). We take quotes every year from the insurance panel covering the sector, and the basic premium hike this year for our master policy is 200% up on our first premium ( over £30,000 this year vs just £10k when we started 5 years ago). We have absorbed the majority of this increase as increasing membership dilutes our underlying costs between members to some degree, and continuing investment in automation of our service keeps administration costs low. We have also managed to increase some limits of cover and get increased legal assistance within our policies as some offset to the premium increases, so we believe we still offer one of the most comprehensive insurance bundles at a very competitive price. We suspect the whole industry will see similar increases to base premiums that need to be handed onto memberships of all organisations, as the underwriting group for this type of insurance is very small, and other providers are likely to be seeing similar increases as their annual policy reviews come into place.

 

Thanks for the reply clayman,

 

I got a nice email from one of your administrators (female) I won't type her name here just in case she didn't want any publicity.

 

It was explained there that due to some large claims people were getting twitchy and putting prices up, that's fair enough.

 

I've signed up for another year as I really do think it's a good policy, however if it goes up by much more membership prices will be getting into the realms of the cheaper shooting organisations which is when I might start looking elsewhere.

 

For now though it's all good

[Lampwick]

Could someone enlighten me? My understanding is SACS not only fight the shooting cause (be it in a limited capacity compared to BASC) but their insurance cover is similar and the will provide "legal representation" as opposed to just advice.

 

Do they have a great business model or do they skimp on their services?

[clayman]

Thanks for the reply clayman,

 

I got a nice email from one of your administrators (female) I won't type her name here just in case she didn't want any publicity.

 

It was explained there that due to some large claims people were getting twitchy and putting prices up, that's fair enough.

 

I've signed up for another year as I really do think it's a good policy, however if it goes up by much more membership prices will be getting into the realms of the cheaper shooting organisations which is when I might start looking elsewhere.

 

For now though it's all good

 

Yes Eleanor in the Northampton Sales Office is a treasure, she's running all the membership services now.

 

Country Cover Club was formed from a basic concept.

 

Most country organisations provide bundled membership services. From my 6 years working for one of the shooting NGB's I soon came to realise that many joined just for insurance and used few of the additional benefits. This meant the costs of running the NGB specialist services was subsidised to some degree by members who paid for these but never used them

 

Taking a model from Travel Insurance bought on-line, our concept was ( and will remain) that we are the "Easy Jet" of the insuring organisations.

 

The basic product is low cost good value provided paperlessly and instantly online.

 

Any extras can be added as desired, they are not bundled. Plastic cards, printed certificates, badges, cover extensions etc. are all available to buy if wanted on a needs basis. We don't have magazines, sporting services, political lobby.

 

You pay for only what you want and use, but everything is extra cost.

 

We will strive to maintain this principle, as we are not an NGB or Political body, and therefore the customer can choose other organisations which provide these extra for the appropriate fees if they want these services

 

If CCC3 membership pricing was no different from sporting / political organisations, and didn't have comparable services, there would be little point in its existence.

 

With the full market sector of sports we insure having upwards of 5million participants, of which only 10% are insured, we seek to fill that gap below the dedicated country organisation by being able to provide short term cover, for casual eventing, season cover for those who dont need a year, and comprehensive cover annually for the dedicated sports person on a budget.

 

Being insured means accepting responsibility for your actions, as you may have to justify yourself if you make a claim, and insured persons are therefore likely to be responsible persons.

 

All the insuring organisations agree that holding insurance is prudent and makes the countryside a safer place, so we all work to that common aim.

 

I hope that CCC3 will continue to hold its place filling a market area not covered by the NGB / Political organisations, while reflecting that many persons benefit from the main membership organisations work, and they should consider that the extra costs for the lobby that keeps our country sports available, is worthy of their support.

Edited May 10, 2013 by clayman

[David BASC]

Lampwick,

 

SACS offer £100k of legal expenses insurance according to their web site, but I have not seen a copy of the policy wording (despite asking for it) so can’t tell exactly what is does or does not cover or what exclusions there may be.

 

Having said that ALL legal expenses policies will only apply if there is a better then 50% chance of winning the case. BASC do not have a LE policy (at the moment) but self-fund appeals out of our reserves, but we use the same checks and balances as any legal expenses policy.

 

SACS and indeed most others, do not have the same resources as BASC so can’t do the level of work that BASC delivers, look at the number of times BASC is on TV, Radio, in the papers, on the BBC web site and so on speaking up for shooting, look at the number of political consultations we undertake each year, the campaigns we run with the police on licencing, and so on.

 

This is not a criticism, of SACS or anyone else, BASC offers a different package, that’s all.

 

We do it because we can, because we have the resources, and it’s up to you all to decide which membership package is best for you, insurance only, insurance with some services, insurance with lots or services, effective political and media lobbying etc… and yes as Clayman says all shooters benefit from what BASC delivers.

 

But like the airline analogy it’s your cash it’s your choice.

 

David

 

PS I am a member of BASC, CA, NGO, GWCT and Angling Trust…

Edited May 10, 2013 by David BASC

[Bloke]

N.S.R.A.