12boreblue Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Hi Guys. I was out on my permission the other day and a couple of charlie's wanderd across the field I was shooting, too far to hit with the 12bore, so considering I have permission to shoot fox, all other vermin and deer with express permission, would it be worth my while applying for my FAC? initially for the foxes. I have many years shooting experience but only in the 12guage and airgun arena. What problems am I likey to run into, and if feasible to apply what would be the calibre of rifle to go for? Any advise greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Well I should call them foxes when your applying (personal dislike for the term used especially in the plural), sorry I am maybe getting old but it seems disrespectful to the quarry like "gooks" for VC soldiers . On to the subject, most forces do not count shotgun experience other than the fact that if you have owned one a while you are less likely to go on the rampage with a screw loose once granted an FAC and recognise safe storage. Some areas grant FAC for smaller than .243 win ( which enters the deer classification) without having a mentor or training - some don't, some seem to pick and choose but its certainly more common now than it was 5-10 years back. Do not fall into the rim fire trap to all intent and purpose these are not fox rifles out of short ranges were you might use the existing shotgun anyway, if they tell you to get a .22 lr or .17 hmr and gain experience I should exploit "good reason" to your advantage. Simply you want to kill foxes not rabbits and have as such no "good reason" to even want a rim fire. If your serious why not ask on here for a local "open" ticket holder to guest on your permission with the prior consent of the landowner and show you the ropes, this way you start your application with some experience. I have done this for a couple of people over the years, explaining the do and don't bits and how to ***** a safe shot/ suitable backstop and no person has even required a letter from me and neither have I been phoned. That is no bad thing on the police's behalf there is too much " pass the blame" that goes on in some areas! One small thing to consider is ammunition needs to be stored separate to the gun in a lock box and they tend to like the bolt to be removed and again separated from the rest of the gun. This often means shotgun guys need to purchase and install another safe. Before the next thread comes up you should buy any .22 centre fire .223 rem being the most you need up to 300 yards for fox .22 Hornet if you want to shoot other quarry and are prepared to stay below 200 yds. .243 win if you want one gun fox and deer ( but you will be better off with different loads for either quarry type). Expect a mentor condition or alternatively the requirement / request for DSC1 for a deer class rifle though ( even with some prior mentoring) as it has become the norm now it seems (guidance notes to police suggests this is a good idea on deer calibres). Don't get fancy on calibres, common is common for good reason and you will appreciate that when ammo is getting harder to obtain by the day at present Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Hi Guys. I was out on my permission the other day and a couple of charlie's wanderd across the field I was shooting, too far to hit with the 12bore, so considering I have permission to shoot fox, all other vermin and deer with express permission, would it be worth my while applying for my FAC? YES initially for the foxes. I have many years shooting experience but only in the 12guage and airgun arena. What problems am I likey to run into, NONE IF YOU HAVE GOOD REASON, ALTHOUGH SOME REGIONS LIKE TO FLEX THEIR MUSCLES and if feasible to apply what would be the calibre of rifle to go for WHAT SORT OF DISTANCE DO YOU EXPECT MOST OF YOUR FOX?? Any advise greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12boreblue Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Many thanks for the replies, much appreciated, considering the lie of the land that I have permision on, the maximum distance would be 200yds and most shots would be taken at 80 to 150yds. My apologies for the pseudonym, I will indeed refer to them in the original name from now on. Regards and thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Many thanks for the replies, much appreciated, considering the lie of the land that I have permision on, the maximum distance would be 200yds and most shots would be taken at 80 to 150yds. My apologies for the pseudonym, I will indeed refer to them in the original name from now on. Regards and thanks .22 Hornet if you think you might shoot hares and rabbits with it some time best trajectory with hand loads 4" low @ 200. Factory quite a bit slower - reduce that range some say 160 ish, you need to be able to shoot well enough as with all calibres. .222 rem or .223 rem both good for soley fox / non edibles gun (unless you download) . You do not need a 22-250, .22 swift etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Many thanks for the replies, much appreciated, considering the lie of the land that I have permision on, the maximum distance would be 200yds and most shots would be taken at 80 to 150yds. My apologies for the pseudonym, I will indeed refer to them in the original name from now on. Regards and thanks Ignore Kent, that nickname has been in use for far longer than Kent has been on this earth and there is nothing wrong with it. I am yet to meet a true countryman that has not, at some time, used it. Quite why Kent has to bring Americanisms into it I don't know, Mr Fox has been called Charlie long before the Yanks usurped it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Ignore Kent, that nickname has been in use for far longer than Kent has been on this earth and there is nothing wrong with it. I am yet to meet a true countryman that has not, at some time, used it. Quite why Kent has to bring Americanisms into it I don't know, Mr Fox has been called Charlie long before the Yanks usurped it. Because it is disrespectful to my mind, it seems to be a big trend on here especially when used as the plural. I have yet to hear any "true countryman" use the term round here, though have heard "Reynard" used in the singular as a mark of respect from older guys who have followed the hounds. The "Americanisms" have also been used by the English man "huns" and "bosh" its meant to de-humanse, in the shooting world I think many are doing the same with this quarry, the fox might be a major threat to stock, wildlife and game but should still be respected - something we in the UK are steadily loosing sight of. To say "Charlie stuck his nose out the hedge" in description is fine imo, a localism perhaps? on the other hand " what gun to shoot Charlies" is very different in the way it portrays our quarry. There is no point explaining further you either get the point or don't. I think the op has that level of respect judging by his kind response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12boreblue Posted April 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 In response to both the above views regarding the term 'Charlie' I feel that in the genre of shooting it would do no harm and be seen in the public view as 'respectful' to continue with the correct name 'Fox' as I have never heard the antis' or any body relating to them call them 'Charlies', so in house from shooter to shooter or on occasion of descriptive reference to the wiley character of a specific fox, then indeed refer to him as 'Charlie', but in general or specifically relating to the quarry then refer to it as 'Fox.' I think that does offer a more respective attitude to what we do, and that can't be a bad thing, and we need all the help we can get. Now back to my FAC having considered the views of many and chatting to my local gun shop, I have decided to apply for a .22LR and a .22 Hornet both with moderators. Considering the layout of the land and the area which surrounds it, I think this is the best way. Although talking to my friend who lives not far from my permission, he was turned down for an FAC many years ago because of the built up area. He did not say what calibre though. This makes me a bit nervous... bit I will put in the application and see what transpires. Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Good God, all the member has done is ask for a bit of advice and we have the equivilent of World War III starting up within the first half a dozen or so replies! Does it really matter that much what any of us choose to call a fox? As long as you kill it quickly, cleanly and pianlessly surely it doesn't make one iota of difference what you call it. I have heard a lot of farmers and poultry owners call a fox things that would get me barred for life from Pigeonwatch if i mentioned the names that they have used for some foxes on here in full! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Unbelievable drivel spouted by some who should acquaint themselves where the name Charlie derived from. It has been an endearing name for Mr. Fox for well over a century and comes from that bastion of respect, good manners and etiquette namely fox hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Unbelievable drivel spouted by some who should acquaint themselves where the name Charlie derived from. It has been an endearing name for Mr. Fox for well over a century and comes from that bastion of respect, good manners and etiquette namely fox hunting. Is your understanding it was Charles James Fox the politician, I have heard all sorts and frankly never been sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Is your understanding it was Charles James Fox the politician, I have heard all sorts and frankly never been sure! That is what I am led to believe. He was a passionate foxhunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 That is what I am led to believe. He was a passionate foxhunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Now back to my FAC having considered the views of many and chatting to my local gun shop, I have decided to apply for a .22LR and a .22 Hornet both with moderators. Considering the layout of the land and the area which surrounds it, I think this is the best way. Although talking to my friend who lives not far from my permission, he was turned down for an FAC many years ago because of the built up area. He did not say what calibre though. This makes me a bit nervous... bit I will put in the application and see what transpires. Many thanks Before you send off the forms try ringing up the local FLO and check that the land has been cleared for what you are putting in for. They may need to come out and check the land before granting the ticket. I would imagine that there were other reasons why your mate was refused but that is not under discussion and none of my business. Remember if you get refused it will stay with you permanently so check first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Call them wot you like but call them near enough to kill with your shotgun-more than enough gun at sensible ranges . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 If as you say max distance is 200 yds the .22 hornet is a great choice, good luck with it all. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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