fieldwanderer Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Think this might be a long one, grab a cuppa... Spoke to the flo yesterday and it sounds quite hopeful for me being granted a .22-250, so I'm lapping up all the info I possibly can. Where I want to use it is quite exposed because its so flat around here and I've yet to see a particularly still day. I'm mostly after the cf for foxes and hares out to some fairly long ranges though I'd like to stalk a few (legal) deer at some point which is why I didn't go for anything smaller .243's a bit much I think - he sounded a little pushed for the .22-250 but it'll do everything I want as far as I can see and is the flattest of the more powerful .22s again as far as I can see. I intend to spend a lot of time on this permission over the coming weeks (it's new) really getting to grips with safe backstops ready to field any questions, if it needs an inspection, is there anything else I can do in preparation? Can ammunition be much cheaper if I load my own / reload? What's the rules for a moderator? Do I just apply for a .22-250 and moderator or do I need to specify the cal. For said mod? Twist rates and bullet weights; I enjoy longer shots and feel this may be important, given all of the above; what is the ideal twist rate and weight? Anything else? Any help or tips would be much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 If you are wanting to shoot the occasional deer then surely you will need a .243 minimum - Unless you are just refering to Munties and CWD. Fox and "long range hares" should be fine with a 22-250 or even a .223 but deer in England (With the exception of Minties and CWD) require a minimum calibre of .243! If you have Roe, Fallows or Reds in mind then maybe you should have another chat with your FLO about the calibre you are requesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hence the "(legal)" f.b. the flo didn't seem keen on anything bigger than .22-250 and I'm happy to stick with muntjac and cwd for the little I intend to do. However, with that little bit of stalking in mind and the nature of my permissions (little cover and often breezy), I opted for about the biggest the flo seemed willing to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Moderator wise you have it right just apply on the next line down on firearms to aquire you will be limited to muntjac and the only real issue will be down to bullet choice, being a fast round it is also destructive which is very good on foxes not so good on deer. Try some soft points and see how you go though to be fair there isn't much on the front end of a muntjac so possibly loosing the shoulders isn't the end of the world. The issue with putting the bullet in the right spot is the risk of puncturing the rumen if you blow too much of it up. Reloading wise yes you save long term but a lot depends how much you shoot as its not that cheap to set up and buy all the gear powder bullets etc. Foxing wise though you won't regret the choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hence the "(legal)" f.b. the flo didn't seem keen on anything bigger than .22-250 and I'm happy to stick with muntjac and cwd for the little I intend to do. However, with that little bit of stalking in mind and the nature of my permissions (little cover and often breezy), I opted for about the biggest the flo seemed willing to consider. No problem mate! It was just the way that I read it. My mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Moderator wise you have it right just apply on the next line down on firearms to aquire How do you mean? I just ask for a moderator or specify the caliber? Can't remember what I did for the rimmys, seems a long time ago now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 How do you mean? I just ask for a moderator or specify the caliber? Can't remember what I did for the rimmys, seems a long time ago now! I have not got form in front of me but from memory you put it down as if it is another firearm, so yes put calibre down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie g Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 yup if you put down 22/250 then put down 22/250 mod. lucky here we can put 22cf and 22cf mod. so we can pick any 22cf. same with 6mm, 20 cal or 30 cal. we can pick which ever one we want on ticket. lot less bother if a rifle comes up in a calibre you havent got on ticket. saves you bother and the office more paper work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Reloading will make it cheaper to pull the trigger in the long run but the cost of buying a reloading kit etc will have to be taken into consideration. My 22-250 likes winchester silvertips @ £34 a box so i could probably save a lot but then again i only use it for foxing so 6 or 7 boxes a year just doesn't justify it. Most 22-250's come in 1/14 twist so are suited to a lighter bullet which is why most shops only sell 50 or 55grm but if you really do want to go down the reloading route then try and get one with a faster twist and it will give you the option of going a bit heavier. I got mine with a faster twist with this in mind but it shoots so well with the 50 and the 55s that i have not bothered but at least i have the option later on if i fancy the reloading mullarky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Excellent, thanks everyone! Just gotta hope the permission gets approved now, it's a little bit borderline in my opinion because of the nature of the land (flat) but that goes for most of the east coast between hull and Essex really so hopefully they're a little bit more lenient than I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted April 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Next question; Question 19 (on form) asks for "reason" - To my mind, I need to put something about the intention to go after deer to avoid them including conditions that don't include deer (vermin only), is there an ideal way to word it? For example; "vermin control and the taking of Deer legal for this caliber"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 yup vermin control and deer siimple as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 You could ask for any lawful quarry, I am just in the process of sending staffs a letter for a change on my ticket.. for any lawfull quarry, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) yup vermin control and deer siimple as that Or even better try asking for Fox and AOLQ? This (if you got it) would cover you for Fox as your primary quarry and Munties and CWD automatically without you having to mention them on your application - However bare in mind that if the AOLQ is refused you would have to apply to get them added to your conditions! Edited April 19, 2013 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 will they do AOLQ on a deer legal caliber if you don't have a deer condition already? they may be stupid at times but surely not that stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 According to BASC then yes there should not be a problem, I asked there fantastic guys at Catton last weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted April 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Thanks again, I've put fox and any other legal quarry on the form - the feo generally has a chat with me about what's on the form and edits it as he goes so I'm sure it can be discussed when he visits (late may apparently :( ). Next bit is to go get their nominated land / club form filled in, if I can track the guy down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 I really agree with Bart on the twist issue, a lot of .250s have a 14T but some are available with 12T and that opens up a lot of options in bullet selection. The bigger advantage is most fast twist barrels will shoot the lighter bullets just as well. A 12T will stabilize the 60 grain bullets pretty well along with the new 53 Vmax that should be spectacular in a large case .22CF. I would have to think a 60 grain slug at around 3200 would be optimal for small deer. I would probably urge you to buy new if finances afford, you can be assured of amount of barrel wear(throat erosion) that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Mine is a 10T So i could in theory go a bit heavier if i ever get the reloading bug, but as it nearly turns foxes inside out i do not see it happening soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted April 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Yep, going for new and I'm after something fairly fancy as I'll probably be selling my HMR - it'll be a bit redundant I think, though I'm reluctant to let it go. I guess stainless barrels last a bit longer? Anyway, trying desperately not to count my chickens at the moment; the answer could still be no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted June 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Ok, update - flo says yes aolq if he can (said his boss can be a bit funny about it) and open ticket - finally! Soo, I'll be looking for a rifle in a few weeks hopefully. I quite fancy a Sako, 75 or 85 in stainless with laminated stock but I'm keeping an open mind. I believe the sako's are all 1:12 twist, is 60gr the maximum for that? I gather 24" or longer barrels are best, is there an ideal length or a "anything over ?? inch is ideal"? Can anyone suggest a shop which has a large number of rifles in stock so I can go and have a proper browse please, without having to travel a million miles if possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 As Alex has suggested, you should really put down Deer, fox, vermin and AOLQ to save any interpretation problems in the future particularly if you don't get AOLQ you will be covered for deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted June 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 The flo's sorting it charlie, he's pretty good with that sort of thing normally - he knows what I want to use the rifle for so will find a way of getting those quarry on there if at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Not sure but I think Sakos will be 1-14 twist. So 60s will be a tad risky although some do manage apparently. 50 & 55 will be good or anything in between. Sako are nice but cost more, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted June 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Not sure but I think Sakos will be 1-14 twist. So 60s will be a tad risky although some do manage apparently. 50 & 55 will be good or anything in between. Sako are nice but cost more, you're absolutely right, any suggestions for an alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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