Tricky legal Q for David BASC, and anyone else.

[Dave-G]

Here's a tricky one for you David:

 

Branchers - we all know they are about due - but would it be legal shooting them with a low light CCTV device fitted to our scope which usually needs artificial light when shooting ground quarry - but would not need artificial light while shooting into leafless trees at dusk with an air rifle.

 

We know the definition of night in terms of deer stalking and we know that until recently night vision devices could not be used for shooting in daylight. However modern digital CCTV cameras can be used in daylight. So we could record the shooting but what if say RSPB decided to try and make a case out of it?

 

Would your team be able to determine what constitutes a device for seeing birds at night - as opposed to one that could be used day or night? And the legal definition of night for the purposes of shooting birds on the quarry list.

 

I'm anticipating a few questions will go up about why would I want to but I have reasons that don't need discussing and won't help the query.

 

 

[CharlieT]

An interesting question.

 

The law states:

• Any device for illuminating a target or any sighting device for shooting at night.
• Any form of artificial lighting or any mirror or other dazzling device.

It could be argued that one must look at what the primary reason the device was manufactured and marketed for. In any event I would suggest that using such a device would be illegal as per the Wildlife and Countryside Act.

 

As far as shooting birds at night is concerned, it is my understanding that it is not illegal to shoot birds at night.

[drut]

Maybe I am wrong but don't branchers settle in nests at night?

[delburt0]

Maybe I am wrong but don't branchers settle in nests at night?

not if they fall to sleep before bedtime

[drut]

not if they fall to sleep before bedtime

Nice one :lol:

[Dave-G]

Ha ha, Well my take on this tricky one is that the sighting device would be a regular rifle scope designed for shooting in daylight because that is the part that has the means to 'sight' the shot. If a camera is clipped to the rear of the scope it's merely monitoring what is seen through the day scope.

 

Drut: I think you are correct about returning to their nests at night: But when does dusk legally become night (for birds) and could it be a defence factor that since the birds are still out on the branch it couldn't have been done at night.

[Dekers]

My Opinion is that Charlie T has said it.

 

Life and technology evolves but legislation has to catch up. Perhaps this may be defined better in the future, but I would still suggest the current W&C Act covers this!

[chrispti]

I thought night time was defined as an hour after sunset.....

 

So if your using any device to assist you in shooting birds after that time, it woul be illegal ?

Edited April 20, 2013 by chrispti

[wymberley]

I thought night time was defined as an hour after sunset.....

 

So if your using any device to assist you in shooting birds after that time, it woul be illegal ?

+1

If mirrors, artificial light and illumination devices are excluded, we're left with just the above. It's obviously not illegal to own them, so it's their use which is suspect. The offence is to use them to kill or take any wild bird for night shooting. If ownership is legal and you're not shooting at night, but simply using the daylight facility, then surely if common sense is in any way associated with the law, all is well. I think night time in this respect is already well defined and doesn't need further amendment.

[David BASC]

I agree, against WLCA in my view and night 1 hr post sunset

 

David

[Dave-G]

Thanks very much all, I had read about 1 hour past sunset in relation to deer but somehow thought that there just might be something I had missed in regard to vermin in trees.

 

Since even adult blackies are back in their nest by full dark it seems to clear up the fact that if one is out of it's nest on branches it could be established that its probably not full dark - so it's a legal shot that would be unlikely to result in a successful prosecution by RSPB etc.

[wymberley]

Thanks very much all, I had read about 1 hour past sunset in relation to deer but somehow thought that there just might be something I had missed in regard to vermin in trees.

 

Since even adult blackies are back in their nest by full dark it seems to clear up the fact that if one is out of it's nest on branches it could be established that its probably not full dark - so it's a legal shot that would be unlikely to result in a successful prosecution by RSPB etc.

Skating on thin ice there though. The legal definition of night has nothing to do with how dark it is or isn't. It's simply defined as one hour after sunset, the time of which is always readily available.

[chrispti]

Thanks very much all, I had read about 1 hour past sunset in relation to deer but somehow thought that there just might be something I had missed in regard to vermin in trees.

 

Since even adult blackies are back in their nest by full dark it seems to clear up the fact that if one is out of it's nest on branches it could be established that its probably not full dark - so it's a legal shot that would be unlikely to result in a successful prosecution by RSPB etc.

Yes you could shoot it, provided you do not use any device to illuminate it etc etc...