Glucosamine Sulphate Tablets

[kyska]

As said, layman here. With regard to the patient information sheets and the symptoms that cannot be measured are you (and possibly doc should he come back on this one) saying that the detailed warfarin interaction is also similarly in doubt? Perhaps I should have said unproven.

 

Does the patient info state there is a contra-indication to taking it in conjunction with anti-coagulants?

[joe1978]

And here's the money-shot... Glucosamine, and any "non-traditional" medicine will not contain a patient leaflet with medical contra-indications because......it's not a medicine.

There may be warnings but never anything more.

 

Joe

[Footu]

what are visceral disorders please

Check out Caroline stone or jean Pierre barral I'm sure they will have web sites with more in-depth detail.

[wymberley]

Does the patient info state there is a contra-indication to taking it in conjunction with anti-coagulants?

No, but if you Google Glucosamine Sulfate and look down a short way on the list you'll hit www.webmd.com and it's all there. I don't know 'owt, I just came across it while looking for any possible side effects. All I'm going to say as a dummy, is that if this is valid, then, to me, a tad more than see your GP before stuffing these boulders down your throat daily as is currently mentioned on the tub is arguably called for.

Edited April 30, 2013 by wymberley

[kyska]

Check out Caroline stone or jean Pierre barral I'm sure they will have web sites with more in-depth detail.

 

No, you tell me, you mentioned it, you explain yourself as a registered practitioner.

 

I think you talk ****, I'm not sure why a 'registered osteo' has interest in visceral disorders, you should be interested in quite the opposite surely?

[Footu]

 

 

The NSAID comment from the 'osteo' made me splutter.

 

Why?

I don't doubt the efficacy of NSAIDs, some people want a brand name like. Voltarol when the 12.5mg has the same effect as a standard 400 mg ibuprofen but at a much higher cost. The OTC market is full of drugs that are trailed but some are expensive and maybe not too effective. Around eight pounds for a tube of ibuleve 200mg with about a 5-10% active ingredient plus a load of emulsifiers and aqueous gel verses a 400 mg tablet that usually comes in a box of many for a pound or so. I have no training in prescription drugs but am aware of the likes of naproxen 500 mg or diclofenac sodium 50 or 75 being given for say an acute disc strain. I have no problem with this. For a more immediate solution an ice pack is much cheaper both to the individual or nhs, has no side effects on bowels or potential stomach ulcers or asthma sufferers.you can't overdose on it. It's used as a pitch side solution to acute injury on multi million pounds sports people, not because it's cheap but because it is the best thing to use for immediate effect. At least if a gp has given you NSAIDs and they are working ice would speed recovery and lessen the drugs you would need to take.

 

So yeah, all things considered I still think its better.

 

You can splutter some more now :-)

[Footu]

 

No, you tell me, you mentioned it, you explain yourself as a registered practitioner.

 

I think you talk ****, I'm not sure why a 'registered osteo' has interest in visceral disorders, you should be interested in quite the opposite surely?

Not sure why you are so spikey. I don't come online to argue or trade insults. There are osteos that mainly treat visceral disorders the ones I mentioned are very well known for it. If you don't like it, tough.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Footu

[kyska]

No, but if you Google Glucosamine Sulfate and look down a short way on the list you'll hit www.webmd.com and it's all there. I don't know 'owt, I just came across it while looking for any possible side effects. All I'm going to say as a dummy, is that if this is valid, then, to me, a tad more the see your GP before stuffing these boulders down your throat daily as is currently mentioned on the tub is arguably called for.

 

This is a huge problem with 'alternative' *cough* medicine.

 

First rule of 'unknown alternatives (cough) that may or may not help you, but might kill you club' is to speak to your pharmacist if you take other medications.

 

I'm not making light of this Wymberly, some herbal medications can have spectacular effects whilst taking moderns medicines, you're quite right to question them.

 

As I've said before, 'complimentary' medicines are purely that, they compliment, whether for a sense of holistic well being, religious well being or whatever, but they compliment modern medicine and shouldn't compromise any expert treatment plan.

 

For example, years ago when I was at college we looked at ill children, the most effective, pain relieving, endorphine releasing, therapeutic complimentary medicine was swimming with their parents...sounds mad, but it completely complimented the treatment plan.

[kyska]

 

The NSAID comment from the 'osteo' made me splutter.

 

Why?

I don't doubt the efficacy of NSAIDs, some people want a brand name like. Voltarol when the 12.5mg has the same effect as a standard 400 mg ibuprofen but at a much higher cost. The OTC market is full of drugs that are trailed but some are expensive and maybe not too effective. Around eight pounds for a tube of ibuleve 200mg with about a 5-10% active ingredient plus a load of emulsifiers and aqueous gel verses a 400 mg tablet that usually comes in a box of many for a pound or so. I have no training in prescription drugs but am aware of the likes of naproxen 500 mg or diclofenac sodium 50 or 75 being given for say an acute disc strain. I have no problem with this. For a more immediate solution an ice pack is much cheaper both to the individual or nhs, has no side effects on bowels or potential stomach ulcers or asthma sufferers.you can't overdose on it. It's used as a pitch side solution to acute injury on multi million pounds sports people, not because it's cheap but because it is the best thing to use for immediate effect. At least if a gp has given you NSAIDs and they are working ice would speed recovery and lessen the drugs you would need to take.

 

So yeah, all things considered I still think its better.

 

You can splutter some more now :-)

 

Because you aren't a medical or allied professional...

 

So in light of that, you shouldn't be suggesting that someone shouldn't be using drugs compounded for the very treatment of inflmmatory and painful injuries.

 

NSAIDS have a far, far wider reaching therapeutic spectrum than cold compresses, your argument seems to stem from the generic vs brandname, which is confusing (why would it matter who buys what?).

 

You have a non argument, I completely agree on the benefits of compresses, but to negate anti inflammatories for the sake of promoting your ideals....shame on you.

[kyska]

 

No, you tell me, you mentioned it, you explain yourself as a registered practitioner.

 

I think you talk ****, I'm not sure why a 'registered osteo' has interest in visceral disorders, you should be interested in quite the opposite surely?

Footu

 

Answer this please too, with as much terminology as you think is necessary, I'll understand it.

 

You quoted it, you explain.

[Gilberts1989]

So..... This has kinda wondered off from the OP lol

[Footu]

I see

Little benefit in continuing this as you appear pretty narrow minded so my last post on this thread You have made your feelings quite plain, you think that osteopathy is not a medical or allied profession( despite Government legislation disagreeing with you and having a primary carer status) that osteopaths should not treat visceral disorders but should be interested in quite the opposite ( actually we just want our patients health to improve regardless of condition) and that I talk****.

 

As you can't be bothered to look up either I the individual's I mentioned and at your insistence, let me give an example of a visceral treatment.

 

Let us imagine that you put your fears aside and came to one of my clinics complaining of general abdominal pain and inspite of taking some self prescribed codeine for the pain it actually got worse. After taking a full case history and doing an abdominal exam( yes we do get trained in more than bones) I decide the reason for your discomfort and bad nature is due to constipation.

 

As the bowell is composed of smooth muscle it can be stretched, compressed or generally massaged. So I begin to stretch and compress the bowell, which kicks off stretch receptors sending messages to the brain that that bit of bowell is full responding with a signal to contract and push the fecal matter further around the bowell. I can push the fecal matter indirectly towards the sigmoid colon and within a few hours would expect even more ***^ to come out of you than we've had so far. That would be an example of visceral treatment.

 

I hope that clears things up for you and am sure you understand the terminology.

 

I like the Internet and pw as an open place to discuss and learn, there hav been some usfull post on the original topic here. I have learnt about possible side effect of chondroitin and been pOinted to more recent studies on glucosamine than I was aware of, although guidelines on useage of the product is still the same.

I don't think there's much left to say on the matter but I would point out that if you think osteopathy is a *cough* danger why do insurance companies and gps refer patients to us?

Edited April 30, 2013 by Footu

[docholiday]

Just a note of caution, if someone has abdominal pain that doesn't revolve, my advice would be seek advice from your GP and not your chiropractor.

just my thoughts, I find it worrying that a chiropractor is advising people on an open forum to seek chiropractic help for non resolving abdominal pain.

sorry OP for wandering off topic

[Cranfield]

This thread needs to get back on topic and if you can't debate without the personal insults, then don't bother.

 

As someone who has suffered with arthritis from their 30's (two knee replacements), I have accepted that apart from pain relief, there were no drugs that were going to moderate, or reverse the process.

Keeping your body weight down to reduce the stress on joints is the best (and hardest) thing to do.

Every Orthopaedic professional and GP I have consulted has echoed docholiday's comments on the efficacy of Glucosomine, thats why I have never bothered taking it.

I firmly believe that the less "medicines" you take leaves your body with a better opportunity of healing , or dealing with ailments, itself.

My grandfather ended up over medicated for arthritis and was taking tablets to counter the side effects of other tablets.

Thats just about my worst nightmare.

[kyska]

I see

Little benefit in continuing this as you appear pretty narrow minded so my last post on this thread You have made your feelings quite plain, you think that osteopathy is not a medical or allied profession( despite Government legislation disagreeing with you and having a primary carer status) that osteopaths should not treat visceral disorders but should be interested in quite the opposite ( actually we just want our patients health to improve regardless of condition) and that I talk****.

 

As you can't be bothered to look up either I the individual's I mentioned and at your insistence, let me give an example of a visceral treatment.

 

Let us imagine that you put your fears aside and came to one of my clinics complaining of general abdominal pain and inspite of taking some self prescribed codeine for the pain it actually got worse. After taking a full case history and doing an abdominal exam( yes we do get trained in more than bones) I decide the reason for your discomfort and bad nature is due to constipation.

 

As the bowell is composed of smooth muscle it can be stretched, compressed or generally massaged. So I begin to stretch and compress the bowell, which kicks off stretch receptors sending messages to the brain that that bit of bowell is full responding with a signal to contract and push the fecal matter further around the bowell. I can push the fecal matter indirectly towards the sigmoid colon and within a few hours would expect even more ***^ to come out of you than we've had so far. That would be an example of visceral treatment.

 

I hope that clears things up for you and am sure you understand the terminology.

 

I like the Internet and pw as an open place to discuss and learn, there hav been some usfull post on the original topic here. I have learnt about possible side effect of chondroitin and been pOinted to more recent studies on glucosamine than I was aware of, although guidelines on useage of the product is still the same.

I don't think there's much left to say on the matter but I would point out that if you think osteopathy is a *cough* danger why do insurance companies and gps refer patients to us?

 

 

You're a quack, if you can't spell bowel properly, I wouldn't like you to treat mine, is this squeezing poo malarky even in your clinical remit? A quick search it appears not, the nhs website only states manipulation for lowe back pain, non surgical, and certainly nothing mentioned about abdominal palpation and manipulation.

 

You mention codeine on a 'self-prescribed' basis, If I were you, to prevent you being struck off or sent to jail, ask your 'clients' to see a medically trained person before you try and 'treat' them.....simples.

 

The good Dr above makes a sound statement.

 

Osteos aren't generally accepted as primary care, thats up to GP's and Pharmacists, so don't elaborate youself as a charlaton, there is 'some' evidence its efficient in lower back pain, I'd hedge my bets on a physio.

 

My PCT certainly didn't pay for osteo treatment for patients, I'm not sure where you get your info from.

Edited April 30, 2013 by kyska

[guest1957]

 

 

You're a quack, if you can't spell bowel properly, I wouldn't like you to treat mine, is this squeezing poo malarky even in your clinical remit? A quick search it appears not, the nhs website only states manipulation for lowe back pain, non surgical, and certainly nothing mentioned about abdominal palpation and manipulation.

 

You mention codeine on a 'self-prescribed' basis, If I were you, to prevent you being struck off or sent to jail, ask your 'clients' to see a medically trained person before you try and 'treat' them.....simples.

 

The good Dr above makes a sound statement.

 

Osteos aren't generally accepted as primary care, thats up to GP's and Pharmacists, so don't elaborate youself as a charlatan, there is 'some' evidence its efficient in lower back pain, I'd hedge my bets on a physio.

 

My PCT certainly didn't pay for osteo treatment for patients, I'm not sure where you get your info from.

I'm not sure you have taken an open minded approach here. There are ways in which osteopathy can be helpful.

 

To simply dismiss someone as a charlatan and quack because he can't articulate himself fully is naive at best.

 

Granted, I don't accept that osteopaths have a role on the prescribing process and that any care should be complementary to other more orthodox treatment.

 

The idea that GPs (jack of all trades master of non) and chums have a monopoly on the relief of all medical symptoms isn't one I can agree with.

[grasscutter]

Hi

 

If you are as 'old' as you mention, make sure your kidneys are up to the job before taking Glucosamine in any quantity. Also Cod liver oil has been recommended to me for joints but it also isn't the best thing for your kidneys.

 

As has been mentioned a few times, your GP is the way to go

 

Keep us informed of any thing that does help please.

 

[kyska]

I'm not sure you have taken an open minded approach here. There are ways in which osteopathy can be helpful.

 

To simply dismiss someone as a charlatan and quack because he can't articulate himself fully is naive at best.

 

Granted, I don't accept that osteopaths have a role on the prescribing process and that any care should be complementary to other more orthodox treatment.

 

The idea that GPs (jack of all trades master of non) and chums have a monopoly on the relief of all medical symptoms isn't one I can agree with.

 

I say quack or charlatan because if someone is treating someones body part that they can't spell disagrees with me. I don't believe he's a osteo at all, that was my point, not directed at other osteopaths, I'm sure they are very professional.

 

If you've had five years training of body systems you'd know how to spell them, it just smacks of mitty to me. And to boot, the things this guy go's on about is way, way out of remit for a osteo, even the resident Dr has made, very subtle remarks about this. I'm not practising, so I'm happy to gob****e down **** talkers.

 

I'll ask if the resident poo pusher would give his credentials, and if they weigh up I'll apologise with humility.

 

Your comment about GP's is another 100 page thread.

[unapalomablanca]

I say quack or charlatan because if someone is treating someones body part that they can't spell disagrees with me. I don't believe he's a osteo at all, that was my point, not directed at other osteopaths, I'm sure they are very professional.

 

If you've had five years training of body systems you'd know how to spell them, it just smacks of mitty to me. And to boot, the things this guy go's on about is way, way out of remit for a osteo, even the resident Dr has made, very subtle remarks about this. I'm not practising, so I'm happy to gob****e down **** talkers.

 

I'll ask if the resident poo pusher would give his credentials, and if they weigh up I'll apologise with humility.

 

Your comment about GP's is another 100 page thread.

kyska, go back through the posts and you will see that i had misgivings early on.

[kyska]

Never been a gp.

If acupuncture has not worked for muscle compartment syndrome within a pretty short time then further steps are needed. The muscle expands on contraction, connective fascia does not. The resultant squeeze stops blod flow to the muscle and muscle fibres die. This can get very serious in some cases and the solution I a fasciotomy. Basically cut it all open to relieve the pressure and let the blood flow again. Resultant scar tissue can be worked on with acupuncture or ultrasound. A good stretching regime for the muscles should be undertaken in either case.

 

 

Hope this is not treading on anyones toes, just trying to be helpful on topics I am familiar with.

Atb

Footu

 

'I a Fasciotomy'?

 

An osteopath does this?? And I presume you perform the skin graft afterwards too?

 

I missed this post, tell me about your general anaesthetic training, suturing technique, wound management, post op analgesia, infection control, physio requirements etc etc.

 

More so, tell me how you are able to do such surgery without being a Dr.

 

Mitty.

 

All people, see the stock photo of a Fasciotomy, now tell me if a private Osteo takes on this type of surgery, its major.

Edited May 1, 2013 by kyska

[unapalomablanca]

'I a Fasciotomy'?

 

An osteopath does this?? And I presume you perform the skin graft afterwards too?

 

I missed this post, tell me about your general anaesthetic training, suturing technique, wound management, post op analgesia, infection control, physio requirements etc etc.

 

More so, tell me how you are able to do such surgery without being a Dr.

 

Mitty.

Medical professionals would avoid this type of debate, it's not really in their ethics and any professional would only give out advice with a valid appointment at a valid establishment. I dont think he will post on this again, might be wrong though.

[kyska]

Are you a GP?

 

So you've never been a gp then

 

Ah I see.