Cows trample, man dies

[sitsinhedges]

To often farmers are criticised for receiving subsidies. The general public receive far more subsidies than farmers in the way of benefits. An example, family allowance, unemployment benefit, the list goes on and you all know what benefits are claimed. Glass houses and stones come to mind, and remember farm subsidies are passed on to the public in the way of cheaper food.

 

Farmers recieve exactly the same benefits that everyone else does.

 

You seem to view the rest of the country as a different species that are all out to get you.

 

[crosshair]

sitsinhedges, another silly comment hardly worth replying to, farmers do not get unemployment benefit, they are working.

[Gordon R]

sitsinhedges

 

Almost forgotten just how superb the League of Gentlemen was.

 

Pauline the pen was one of my favourites. Met a few Paulines over the years.

 

Addressing the very last comments - I presume that farmers buy their food from a non-subsidised shop and do not claim any form of tax relief / family benefits / Working Tax Credits.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Gordon R

[sitsinhedges]

sitsinhedges, another silly comment hardly worth replying to, farmers do not get unemployment benefit, they are working.

 

 

So is the rest of the world you silly man.

 

You don't get benefits just for not being a farmer. I know that's hard to believe when someone has the tragic victim outlook on life that you do but it's true.

 

Everyone gets just the same and everyone including yourself can go for a walk on any footpath on any farm in the land.

 

I'm surprised you have any time to get any farming done after you've spent most of your day whining about how hard done by you are.

[crosshair]

Where have I said I am hard done by ?. and you say the rest of the world is working ?, obviously you have nothing constructive to add, you are only making a fool of yourself.

[darren m]

darren m - just grow up. Think before you post - it's a bit too late after.

 

 

First you try to qualify what you said, then repeat it - priceless. :lol:

you,ve just done it again quoted me as saying something i did not ,

 

 

it seems pretty black and white to me , nothing needs qualify :- if you load a gun and point it at your own head , then pull the trigger , what the **** do you think is going to happen

its called being responsible for your own actions , i never said they deserved to die , but its pretty obvious of the outcome

 

i am guessing you are the rambler type of person who thinks everything in the country side is there for your own amusement , or someone who just loves a good argument .Have you ever had to actually go into a field and rescue a stupid family with kids and a terrified dog , i have .

if somebody playing chicken on the motorway got hurt , what would you say ,probably they didnt deserve it

 

in farms where i have worked , if there was a bull , sucklers , even deer calving ( or what ever you call it ) on ROW there as been caution signs, enter at own risk signs , dogs on leads signs , warning signs etc , what more can a landowner do.

 

so sorry it is my opinion that if you do not abide by the rules and **** about and put your self at risk , you deserve what you get , sadley

if you think thats a stupid / harsh comment then so be it.

[Gordon R]

Darren - for your information, I was brought up in the countryside, but unlike yourself, I continued to develop.

 

If it is black and white to you - fair enough. If I had your intelligence, I might well think the same. Luckily, I don't.

 

I am not a rambler - although I don't really know why you sneer at ramblers. Before you make a bigger fool of yourself and say that you didn't do that either - re-read your own posts.

 

If a farmer puts livestock, which could injure someone, into a field where there is a right of way, then all the signs that you mention are an admission of liability. It's like the sign - "beware of the dog". You have signed your rights away. You are aware of the danger and think a sign is good enough. Well, in the real world, where litigation abounds, you will find that it isn't.

 

Your view may well be well intentioned or not, but it is naïve.

 

As for going into a field with livestock in it - yes I have. There is a field behind my home with a right of way down the middle. Livestock were never, ever put in the field, but one day the farmer decided, in his wisdom, to put cattle in there. After sauntering along - oblivious, we were just exiting the field when a herd of cattle appeared, at a decent pace. I started to exit when we were surrounded by aggressive cattle. One actually kicked one of my German Shepherds - resulting in one of my other GSDs taking a chunk out of a cow. All a bit silly.

 

If you think the farmer was well within his rights - I give up. He was a plank.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Gordon R

[darren m]

ok , we have differing opinions , no probs.

so you have seen it first hand so you know how dangerous it could be .

 

Anyway different subject ,groups of ramblers are a pain but thats just my opinion , especially when they are not where they are supposed to be ie. off the intended ROW . Especially if trying to work or move livestock from field to field .

 

I love the country side i walk (not ramble) and work my dogs , i shoot , and daughters ride there horses , it is a free for all , i just wish some folks would use better judgement and expect the unexpected. maybe a bit of education , i dont know ,its just common sense really.

Farmers cant be held responsible for these people who through caution to the wind and stroll off into fields of mad heffers , if the warning signs are there.

[-Mongrel-]

sitsinhedges, another silly comment hardly worth replying to, farmers do not get unemployment benefit, they are working.

He has got a point though. If the farmers stopped working they'd get unemployment, and they still get family allowance/tax credits etc just the same as everyone else. It's not as though you are any more hard done by than the rest of the working population.

 

Having said that, I wouldn't want to do your job, too much like hard work

[Gordon R]

darren - truce called.

 

We don't agree - that's life.

[CharlieT]

To be fair though Darren, those mad heffers should not be in a field which has a footpath running through it.

 

To return to the tragic accident which this topic was about, the reports state that the poor chap that was killed was a university professor who was visiting his brother, who was also injured in the incident, was walking a well used footpath in the village where his brother lived.

 

Nothing suggests they were ramblers, rather they were locals well versed in the ways of the countryside. Reports also state that in the past 5 years 4 such incidents have occurred on the same footpath and goes on to say that the cattle have been moved to a more secure field.

 

This is a tragic accident that could have been averted had the farmer been more circumspect. Whilst I completely agree that footpath users should use their gumption, they cannot be expected to know the temperament of the stock grazing the field and in a large field know if stock, is infact, grazing it. A footpath user must be able to use a public right of way in safety.

 

I would not be surprised, in this particular case, if action is not taken against the farmer.

[Gimlet]

 

 

....Nothing suggests they were ramblers, rather they were locals well versed in the ways of the countryside. ..

 

Actually, 'Ramblers' proper are rarely a problem. They clog up the village and the roads with parked cars and they make the place look untidy, but they very rarely stray off the path and they very rarely have dogs and they don't damage anything or cause any disturbance. What on earth they need with all that clobber, special clothing and ski stick things I've no idea - they're strolling through a couple of fields not crossing the Empty Quarter; but they tend to be fairly responsible.

The real problem are locals. These are not 'real' locals; they're not country people. They're urban migrants who've moved from towns to live the dream and they treat the countryside like a municiple park or public playground. They are the ones who ride motorbikes and horses across crops, cover the place in dog **** and cut fence wire so they can ride their mountain bike where they like. The real country people, the half dozen or so who are left get as annoyed about it as the farmers do, although it is not their land.

If only the Escape To The Country brigade behaved like the ramblers there would be little problem.

[crosshair]

I appreciate there is a problem, a few on here have suggested that cattle should not be kept in fields with public footpaths, but if they cannot graze them and rear cattle, then what becomes of the rather expensive field that he paid a lot of money for ?. Farming is a business, some farms are suitable for arable, others for rearing stock whether it be cattle or sheep, I am surprised that on a shooting forum there are so many anti farmers who seem well brushed up on litigation and the claim culture regarding footpaths. They are entitled to their opinion like everyone else, but how do they manage to shoot on a mixed farm with beef cattle, do they tell the farmer first that they will sue him if a cow chases him, I don't think so.

[Gordon R]

It isn't anti-farmers - it's the law.

 

We didn't make it and I have sympathy with farmers. As someone else has pointed out - there will probably be a successful action against any farmer who has dangerous livestock in field with a Right of Way.

 

As for well briefed - as part of my work I attended a seminar on risk assessments, over 20 years ago. The legal eagle cited the classic "Beware of the Dog" sign to illustrate his point. We all thought he was just being pedantic, but he wasn't.

[sitsinhedges]

I appreciate there is a problem, a few on here have suggested that cattle should not be kept in fields with public footpaths, but if they cannot graze them and rear cattle, then what becomes of the rather expensive field that he paid a lot of money for ?. Farming is a business, some farms are suitable for arable, others for rearing stock whether it be cattle or sheep, I am surprised that on a shooting forum there are so many anti farmers who seem well brushed up on litigation and the claim culture regarding footpaths. They are entitled to their opinion like everyone else, but how do they manage to shoot on a mixed farm with beef cattle, do they tell the farmer first that they will sue him if a cow chases him, I don't think so.

 

You need to get over this bogus idea that people are anti farmer, they're not. All they ask is that where members of the public have a legal right to use pathways across farmland, that farmers whilst using that land for its intended purpose avoid putting particularly problematic stock in the same fields for the sake of the safety of people using it.

[crosshair]

Gordon R, And it has been said so many times the law is an ***, Seriously if you had a load of fields only suitable for grazing cattle with a footpath going through them, what would you do with the fields ?.

My last word on this is that regardless how much I disagree with some on this thread I would still take any opportunity to help the same people out if the situation arises in the future.

 

We're just blabbing on an internet forum let's keep some perspective

[Gordon R]

I would worry about getting sued. I would either fence off the footpath or not use it for livestock. Whatever you think of the law, or your rights etc. - if someone gets hurt on a Right of Way, when you have livestock in that field - get a good solicitor, because you will need one.

 

Putting signs up is hilarious. It doesn't work on many levels, with dyslexic people, foreigners, people with poor eyesight, or people who realise that the sign is as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

 

I don't have the answer, but just accept the law as it is. It doesn't require you or me to like it - it just is the law.

[bikemad24]

my father inlaw used to have lab gundog that would wind bullocks up by chasing them, when the tables turned, he would run back and hide behind us. its a bit nerve racking to say the least.

if that was around here it would be shot, no questions asked. there is a farmer around 2 miles from my house with a springer spaniel in his freezer waiting for the police to pick it up. hes been in court twice in the last year, every time the court found in his favour.

[Gordon R]

It begs the question as to what he has been in court for, if he is clearly in the right. Any more details or press links?

[bikemad24]

the last person to take him to court, tried to have him done for animal cruelty. I think he killed the owners 2 dogs. the owner is a business man who has bought a house for the weekends near prestatyn. the farmers field back up the business man house. I know for a fact he got warned at least twice but thought he was above the law. il find out all info for tomorrow . il ring him.