.22 Hornet compared to 17HMR

[ThePestControllers]

Hi folks

does anybody have any experience shooting the .22 hornet compared to the 17 hmr.

i currently have a browning 17hmr with a custom thumbhole stock but i am thinking of changing to a .22 hornet.

the reason is hopefully less wind deflection at 100-150 yards in gusty wind

cheers

Daz

Edited June 10, 2013 by ThePestControllers

[Underdog]

More versatile and decisive sir.

U.

[al4x]

more powder more damage and you have to handload to get the cost close. The HMR is what it is a cracking rabbit gun with a flat trajectory and decent level of accuracy at a reasonable cost. Its not a centerfire but then I wouldn't have a centerfire as a bunny gun.

[Dekers]

I think we have done this before.

 

They are different tools, the HMR excels as a long range bunny tool, and fox in the right situation, in my opinion/experience.

 

The Hornet is a level up, simple as!

[Salop Matt]

I would stick with the the HMR unless your going to start taking more fox`s ! the HMR is just excellent as a bunny tool.

 

ATB

 

Matt

[wymberley]

Just ran the Sierra programme as already had both calibres in it. Against the HMR I used the 45gn Hornady Hornet at a relatively gentle 2750ft/sec and used a culmination figure of +0.5" - 113 yards and 132 respectively - and at 150 yards the windage (10mph cross) for the Hornet was just under half that for the HMR at 4".

 

However, at that range the energy levels are 95 and 450ft/lbs, again respectively. Do you need it?

 

As above, it's horses for courses.

 

For my money, the smart answer is to see how long we have to wait for the WSM - it can't be too long now - a year? - as this equates to the Hornet trajectory figures above - and has 230ft/lbs at the 150 if you need it.

 

On the other hand, if you insist, I know where there's a cracking Weihrauch that the owner could be persuaded to sell!

[Gimlet]

Just ran the Sierra programme as already had both calibres in it. Against the HMR I used the 45gn Hornady Hornet at a relatively gentle 2750ft/sec and used a culmination figure of +0.5" - 113 yards and 132 respectively - and at 150 yards the windage (10mph cross) for the Hornet was just under half that for the HMR at 4".

 

However, at that range the energy levels are 95 and 450ft/lbs, again respectively. Do you need it?

 

As above, it's horses for courses.

 

For my money, the smart answer is to see how long we have to wait for the WSM - it can't be too long now - a year? - as this equates to the Hornet trajectory figures above - and has 230ft/lbs at the 150 if you need it.

 

On the other hand, if you insist, I know where there's a cracking Weihrauch that the owner could be persuaded to sell!

 

Don't want to steer the thread off topic, but I wonder how the .17 compares to these figures? 450 ft/lbs at 150 yds is an awful lot of energy for rabbit shooting. (Though I can't talk, I use a .222 which delivers 700).

 

I agree the WSM, if it works, is the ideal solution to reliable high volume rabbit shooting at 150+ yds. If it shoots like the HMR at an affordable ammo price it will really upset the apple cart.

[wymberley]

 

Don't want to steer the thread off topic, but I wonder how the .17 compares to these figures? 450 ft/lbs at 150 yds is an awful lot of energy for rabbit shooting. (Though I can't talk, I use a .222 which delivers 700).

 

I agree the WSM, if it works, is the ideal solution to reliable high volume rabbit shooting at 150+ yds. If it shoots like the HMR at an affordable ammo price it will really upset the apple cart.

As per previously (the + 0.5" would require a 170 yard zero though), 3" drift and 350ft/lbs at the 150 yards for the 17 Hornet using Hornady factory rounds.

 

Problem is though that the OP hasn't actually said what he's shooting.

[ThePestControllers]

thank you for all your input

I am shooting foxes rabbits hares and theres some very very twitchy crows that i just cant get near but they do land on the ground but they are150- 180 yards away from the vantage point.

its in a valley and the wind just seems to funnel through even if its a calm day on top.

i know a hornet is probably a bit over the top for crows but the 17hmr is just to unpredictable in mildly gusting or changeable wind at that distance.

on this farm they dont come anywhere near you if you put decoys out.they have been shot at very hard i think by another shot that has permission in the area so they are super weary.

Cheers

Daz

[al4x]

just get a .223 for the foxes and long range stuff

[Underdog]

The Hornet is not over the top for crows, nor any other cal In my opinion, they need thinnin' n' thats that.

 

Those crows will move out further after you have had a Hornet for a bit and so it goes, then you will find you have to start over again and get sneaky.

 

U.

[ThePestControllers]

Cheers Underdog

i know what you mean its an ongoing thing.

i think the problem is when they get shot at and don't get killed.

theres to many people around here because of pheasant shoot shooting at them and they get ever so twitchy.

how long will it be before i need a 50 cal

Cheers

Daz

[Underdog]

You will have more fun with them crows with what ever you chose over going to the pub or watching the fools lantern lol.

 

U.

[alendil]

i do use hmr and hornet.

and they are superb acurate but totaly difrent tools.

 

on cost side i pay 13,50 gbp box of 50 .17 hmr

50 home loads for hornet is about 12-13 gbp.

tube of powder (lil gun) 40 gbp and will do 750 loads

100 sierra 45 grain SP 14.10 gbp

brass about 20p each

primers 3p each.

 

and last thing my .22 hornet with t12 mod is quiter than my .17 hmr with SAK mod.

[Dekers]

i do use hmr and hornet.

and they are superb acurate but totaly difrent tools.

 

on cost side i pay 13,50 gbp box of 50 .17 hmr

50 home loads for hornet is about 12-13 gbp.

tube of powder (lil gun) 40 gbp and will do 750 loads

100 sierra 45 grain SP 14.10 gbp

brass about 20p each

primers 3p each.

 

and last thing my .22 hornet with t12 mod is quiter than my .17 hmr with SAK mod.

 

I don't think that is too much of a surprise! If my memory serves me correctly the T12 is rated up to 300 Win Mag, about a foot long and 700g, and the best part of £300, so it should do ok on a Hornet which only just qualifies as a centrefire (are calibre specific baffles available?)!!

 

The SAK is designed for .22lr but is rated at 10,000 rounds on HMR and WMR by Jackson Rifles, weights 160g and costs about £30-£35.

 

I doubt there is much in it just the same!

 

Help me out on costs, what does it actually cost per round to reload the Hornet, lets forget all the tooling, measuring, cleaning, dispensing, etc., equipment,........ raw materials, remembering brass can only be recycled so many times, your figures above have it about 25p, is that fair?

 

This is not meant to be negative, I rate both Hornet and HMR, the Hornet went out of fashion largely due to legislation in my view, it can have its uses for many, and if reloading brings the right benefits it can be a tool to be reckoned with!!

Edited June 12, 2013 by Dekers

[alendil]

Dekers. i know t12 vs SAK B)

 

Lil Gun powder is 40 gbp (Henry Kranks) = 6250 grains = my load is 12.8 grain so counting 13 grains is 480 loads wich is 8.3 pence

1000 CCI primers is 30 gbp =3p each

100 Sierra 45 grains SP 14.10 gbp = 14.1p each

brass 100 PPU is 20.30 gbp =20.3 p each (i did get brass with my reloading gear and 50 left after ppu ammo)

 

Total is about 46p each but if you get 10 reloads from each brass 20.3 p is going down to 2p each

so we get 28p per shot. it is 14 gbp per box of 50

 

My loading gear lee hand press set of dies funel + almost 100 new winchester brass + tube of lube cost 60 gbp

[Dekers]

Dekers. i know t12 vs SAK B)

 

Lil Gun powder is 40 gbp (Henry Kranks) = 6250 grains = my load is 12.8 grain so counting 13 grains is 480 loads wich is 8.3 pence

1000 CCI primers is 30 gbp =3p each

100 Sierra 45 grains SP 14.10 gbp = 14.1p each

brass 100 PPU is 20.30 gbp =20.3 p each (i did get brass with my reloading gear and 50 left after ppu ammo)

 

Total is about 46p each but if you get 10 reloads from each brass 20.3 p is going down to 2p each

so we get 28p per shot. it is 14 gbp per box of 50

 

My loading gear lee hand press set of dies funel + almost 100 new winchester brass + tube of lube cost 60 gbp

 

Cheers.

So, in this day and age you can't really complain at under 30p a bang for what a Hornet can deliver, IF you are in the market for one!

[alendil]

if bunny is only target i will go for .17 hmr

but if there is some fox and hare to shoot from time to time Hornet all the way.

and head shot rabits are good for the table.

[Dekers]

if bunny is only target i will go for .17 hmr

but if there is some fox and hare to shoot from time to time Hornet all the way.

and head shot rabits are good for the table.

 

Ok, I'm off again, curious, Hare, why not HMR, their head is bigger than a rabbits!

[alendil]

 

Ok, I'm off again, curious, Hare, why not HMR, their head is bigger than a rabbits!

In Co.Durham hmr is not fox legal nothing else

i know dead is dead but 45 grains SP on 150 yards will have bit more wow factor.

 

and .17 hmr is fine on hare no prob.

Edited June 12, 2013 by alendil

[Gimlet]

 

Ok, I'm off again, curious, Hare, why not HMR, their head is bigger than a rabbits!

 

I find hares are no tougher to kill than rabbits. They may be bigger but they don't seem to be any more robust. Maybe something to do with different muscle or bone density. I've dropped them with 150 yd body shots with the HMR without any bother at all. They sometimes do the standing high jump, all arms and feet, but they're dead when they hit the ground. HMR dispatches them cleanly and without too much meat damage.

[Dekers]

In Co.Durham hmr is not fox legal nothing else

i know dead is dead but 45 grains SP on 150 yards will have bit more wow factor.

 

and .17 hmr is fine on hare no prob.

 

Ok, you may think I'm getting picky, but HMR is Fox legal in the entire UK. Whether your region will condition your FAC with HMR and Fox is another matter altogether! That is then down to your FAC conditions, not the HMR being legal, the Fox has no legal minimum calibre/energy/ammo/etc., condition attached to it!

[Underdog]

Yes. A bit like a muzzleloading rifle is not illegal for vermin or even deer depending on performance/cals etc but they wont condition a licence for one!

 

U.

[ThePestControllers]

HMR is not legal for fox in north yorkshire either and they will not attach fox to the conditions on your certificate.

i have tried to argue my point to the FAO but they just said if i do it for you i would have to do it for everybody.

they said that they don't consider a rimfire a suitable caliber for fox.

that is one main reasons i want a hornet and i also would very much like to get into loading my own and i figured 22 hornet was a good starting point.

especially now i am going to reload my shotgun cartridges.

i know the HMR will drop just about anything you hit in the head but on one of my permissions that has a big valley in it

even at the top it can be still wind but down the bottom the wind is swirling all over the place its never constant in one direction so it is really tricky to shoot.

and its not a matter of not being able to shoot straight i can put round after round in a 1" circle at any moderate distances but when i put a picture of a crow up at 100 yards

in the bottom of the valley the hits were spread all over the crow up down left right its unreal its more like a 410 shotgun.

it was more like a 3" group at 100 yards so god knows what it would of been at 150 yards.

i know there are people that say they can hit clover pattern at 300 yards and all sorts of crazy claims but i would like to see anyone come to my place and shoot a clover pattern at 100 yards.

they would have a job at 50 yards.

 

Daz

[Dekers]

HMR is not legal for fox in north yorkshire either and they will not attach fox to the conditions on your certificate.

i have tried to argue my point to the FAO but they just said if i do it for you i would have to do it for everybody.

they said that they don't consider a rimfire a suitable caliber for fox.

that is one main reasons i want a hornet and i also would very much like to get into loading my own and i figured 22 hornet was a good starting point.

especially now i am going to reload my shotgun cartridges.

i know the HMR will drop just about anything you hit in the head but on one of my permissions that has a big valley in it

even at the top it can be still wind but down the bottom the wind is swirling all over the place its never constant in one direction so it is really tricky to shoot.

and its not a matter of not being able to shoot straight i can put round after round in a 1" circle at any moderate distances but when i put a picture of a crow up at 100 yards

in the bottom of the valley the hits were spread all over the crow up down left right its unreal its more like a 410 shotgun.

it was more like a 3" group at 100 yards so god knows what it would of been at 150 yards.

i know there are people that say they can hit clover pattern at 300 yards and all sorts of crazy claims but i would like to see anyone come to my place and shoot a clover pattern at 100 yards.

they would have a job at 50 yards.

 

Daz

 

 

YES it is, as I said above I'm not trying to be picky, but it is about wording, the region may not want to condition your FAC with Fox against your HMR, so on that basis you can't shoot them with it, that doesn't make the HMR illegal for fox in North Yorkshire, (or anywhere else).

 

I can come to your region and shoot Fox with my HMR perfectly legally, and my WMR and .22lr! Therefore the rifle/calibre is NOT illegal, your region simply will not allow YOU to use it.

 

That makes it an even more daft situation of course.