Rogc Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 I recently started reloading and have noticed a issue with ejecting cases after they have been fired twice and neck sized only. This is in a Howa 1500. I noticed this at the range had 2 out of 30 fail to eject, no big issue as I had the cleaning rod to hand but a bit inconvenient. Anyway after neck sizing I decided to try them in the Howa and half failed to eject. Following a full length resize they are fine again. They didnt seem tight going in, just wondering if its the bolt claw not engaging properly as there was absolutely no resistance when drawing back the bolt. An explanation would be more than welcome. Cases were S&B by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 What load are you using it sounds too hot Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogc Posted August 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 What load are you using it sounds too hot Deershooter Im using 24.8 & 25.3 of V135 with 55FMJ heads. Lee says 24.3 start and 26.8 max, The Viht guide says 23.3 to 24.5 so possibly overloading for the 55gr FMJ, depends which book or even which Viht publication you read, however they were not stuck, just didnt seem to engage with the bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Is there a rust ring in the chamber throat! Has the brass been trimmed? Is the extractor sharp or been chipped. Consider if a strong extractor spring is needed. Interesting that you say you feel no resistance on the bolt....is that during extraction ? U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Check the case length - the brass will stretch after firing - have you trimmed back to suit? Also, why are you only bothering with a neck resize? Surely a full-length resize is going to be the most reliable way forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogc Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I've had a good look this evening. The ejector is not engaging with the lip on the case. The cases are of the correct length, i trimmed these at the previous reload and checked length this time around. Its as if the case is actually sitting to far in the breach, therefore not enough proud to engage with the ejector. Not sure why a full length re size resolves the problem though. I only neck size as the cases are worked far less and therefore likely to last longer, also i was advised that as they were form fired they are more accurate. Thanks all for trying to help, looks like i will just have to flr all cases for this rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Howa's have tight chambers and are not very tolerant of cases that are slightly too big. I always use PPU cases in mine and have no issues but I tried 20 Hornady a while back and even though they were fireformed they were still a bit sticky. I only neck size the PPU and have had no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I don't get this.... a flr cures the situation?? That would make the case seet deeper in the chamber! When you neck size how far down the neck does it resize? U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogc Posted August 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 A bit of an update, it looks as if the cases are tight therefore not extracting, the reason im saying that is that a little wd40 on them and they eject fine. The ejector was inspected by a gun smith and given the thumbs up, the chamber was thoroughly cleaned, The cases eject fine prior to firing but after ifs a 25% fail to eject. New cases are ok never had one stick. A little experimenting today, a little wd40 on the case prior to loading and all is OK, so im assuming its stiction in the chamber thats the issue. Im wondering as the cases have been fired and work hardened, perhaps they are not shinking back as much after firing, therefore sticking. WD40 just gives it a little bit of lubrication to help it on its way. Measuring the cases after firing the chamber appears tight compared to my Ruger, quite a bit smaller, 0.006" im wondering if this is the issue, as im using the same cases in the ruger once they have been FL resized without issue. Your thoughts?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Polish the chamber. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Your intentionally putting oil onto the case prior to firing it in the gun? that's a little daft who gave you that idea? Cases should be dry and free from oil as should a chamber. Oil left in a chamber is quite bad for the chamber and pressures within. Pressure is not all about powder fill, there are many factors to consider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogc Posted August 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Polish the chamber. U. How would I go about doing this? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Your intentionally putting oil onto the case prior to firing it in the gun? that's a little daft who gave you that idea? Cases should be dry and free from oil as should a chamber. Oil left in a chamber is quite bad for the chamber and pressures within. Pressure is not all about powder fill, there are many factors to consider +1 here - The last thing I would recommend is any sort of lube on a case because it's difficult to extract - Sounds over pressure to me, are you using a heavy crimp? Can you post a picture of the loaded rounds and fired primers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 just full length size each time,then you have the same dimensions case to case and if they work harden take up anealing.in my humble opinion just neck sizing is over rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 A tight chamber will be higher in pressure over a loose chamber. If the neck is struggling to release the bullet etc. I would really consider dropping the charge or even try another powder to eliminate it from the enquiry. Really...polishing the chamber should not be necessary. The oil is simply allowing the case to ram against the bolt instead of gripping the chamber under pressure momentarily.....it could just be to much pressure. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houlsby Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) Are you sure your not putting too much powder in? I'm using n135 at 23.1g with a 60g vmax and 2.44 col and had no issues. Even throws a half decent group Is the case going IN easy or are you having to ram it in? Edited August 21, 2013 by houlsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogc Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Im using Vhit135 24.3gr with a 55gr head. These loads are perfect in my Ruger M77, I will be checking the chamber over the weekend to see if there are any signs of corrosion etc which could be the cause. The cases go in easy, and eject fine prior to firing. Initially I thought the ejector was not engaging, now im sure the cases are sticking in the chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Im using Vhit135 24.3gr with a 55gr head. These loads are perfect in my Ruger M77, I will be checking the chamber over the weekend to see if there are any signs of corrosion etc which could be the cause. The cases go in easy, and eject fine prior to firing. Initially I thought the ejector was not engaging, now im sure the cases are sticking in the chamber. Over pressure 99.9% of the time is the issue when you see this. Forget looking at primers etc. for conformation as it does not always show in the primer. Any single sign of pressure even occasionally - reduce the load ! If you haven't ever got this previous and are on the same tub of powder, look to the warmer weather or over used brass. Pressure should never be ignored as a tiny step up can mean big safety issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 As soon as you said they go in and eject fine if not fired my mind was made up. Too much pressure will make them stick. Back off the load and see if they still do it, but my money is on them coming out just fine when not pushed so hard. There have been several threads on this subject recently and it does worry me. This isn't just aimed at the OP but is a concern in general - If you can't tell what the basic signs of pressure are then you should not be approaching max loads when home loading. If you go a step past sticky cases and heavy bolt lift things can get very painful. It's just not worth it! Read up on it or get someone to talk you through it. This is such basic info you should really know it before starting to load your own ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 As soon as you said they go in and eject fine if not fired my mind was made up. Too much pressure will make them stick. Back off the load and see if they still do it, but my money is on them coming out just fine when not pushed so hard. There have been several threads on this subject recently and it does worry me. This isn't just aimed at the OP but is a concern in general - If you can't tell what the basic signs of pressure are then you should not be approaching max loads when home loading. If you go a step past sticky cases and heavy bolt lift things can get very painful. It's just not worth it! Read up on it or get someone to talk you through it. This is such basic info you should really know it before starting to load your own ammo. Maybe a few pictures of blown up actions might concentrate a few minds. This is an issue today, not long back there were no forums and you had to learn from a friendly mentor (it was generally a lot safer back then). If in doubt ask about, find a trusted person who can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogc Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 From the vhit loading data 24.3 is no where near max with v135. I may be overloading the cases,but primers do not seem overly flattened. I will try 23gr and see what happens. What I don't understand is why if the cases are being overloaded in the howa why are they ok in my ruger, with exactly the same load. Thank you all for the advice, it really is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houlsby Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Iv got loads on paper upto 27g with the 135. BUT Iv had a go with making one and the case was full and needed the rest of the powder compressing. So I sacked that idea off.. Looked cool with masses of power on paper but in reality it's dogga. I'm using 23.1g which is the lowest recommended on the vhit website. It groups ok in my gun but I do need to mess more. Col is the recommended col, Iv used sako cases cos its what I had to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Every barrel and chamber can have just enough difference so as to make a difference. It does look like to much pressure and the only way to make sure is to drop the charge and see if things improve....if they don't then we must look else where but thats what to do first. On a side note this is why I like to stick to the slower powders for a cal; it makes for a more forgiving load when topping out! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Its possible to go way over max published data with some guns, yet others wont get to max. Reading primers is just a way of seeing pressure BUT its not always clear to see. So go off the first any any sign you see, never look for more evidence and carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Primer hardness can vary. Sometimes they show but sometimes they don't. Just because it's listed as a book maximum doesn't mean it's the safe maximum in everything. That's why most data lists a starting load (which is safe) to work up from. I've never blown up a gun myself but have seen a few that have gone. The time that really pushed the point home was a fella who had lost his left hand and he had scars on his face from the fragments too. He'd carelessly double charged and not noticed. When I home load I always tip the case upside down before throwing in the powder. It's an easy habit to get into and if for any reason you overlook the first charge of powder you will tip it all over yourself and notice your mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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