Custom varminter/target rifle

[Gimlet]

I'm after a rifle that will shoot 1000 yds target and work as a small volume varminter/deer rifle. I'm a member of a shooting club but my only suitable rifle is a heavy barrelled .222 which is fine out to 300 yds, 400 if conditions allow but beyond that I'm a spectator.

I'm thinking a .25-06. Bit of a compromise I know, but a cracking fox/muntie cartridge and not an out and out barrel burner like a the smaller stuff. Club shooters I've talked to are in two minds - baring in mind most aren't sporting shooters. Some really rate the calibre for long range, some won't touch anything but .284, others nothing but 7.62 and some think .30-06 is better than either at 1K (?), so they've just confused me.

I've got an m595 in.308 as a general stalking rifle. I don't to change it but I would like to add to it a long-range fox/deer calibre like a .25-06. Otherwise I'd just buy a TRG. so I was thinking of a custom along the lines of a Steve Kershaw Nesika based rifle, or a Brock and Norris.

So am I barking up a suitable tree with a .25-06? Will I get it in a suitable action?

Is a ready made custom like the above the way to go and if not these, which?

Or, would it be better to buy a donor rifle and have it customised?

I've only owned off the shelf sporters So I'm in the dark here.

Guidance needed please.

 

[Dougy]

I would have thought one of the 6.5 cals would be more suited. The 06 cals are big cases and need some filling for the simalar velocities of the smaller 6.5x55 cases and the like, i'm looking at another long range cal myself, if that is i get round to shooting out my Sako.

I have been looking at the 6.5x55 6.5x47 and 260's

If i were to choose a smith to do the rebarrel or custom build i would go Steve out of the 2 you mention

Edited September 17, 2013 by Dougy

[fieldwanderer]

If it were me, I'd have a serious think about another .308; various armies and police units use it for their sniper rifles and for a number of good reasons. I believe the .300 wetherby magnum is superior balisticly but I can't claim to know a great deal about bigger calibers, I guess you'd find a pretty good answer if you look at what the top 1000yd shooters are using.

 

At the end of the day though, you buy/build a custom rifle for one person - YOU! Do a load of reading up and build exactly what you want using informed decisions.

 

When I chose the caliber and bullet weight for my varmint rifle that I'm building, I spent days playing with ballistic calculators and extensive reading about twist rates, internal and external ballistics etc and finally settled on the 65gr sierra gameking bullet - my research taught me that such a bullet at .22-250 speeds would need an absolute minimum of a 1:11 twist barrel and that I should try to use a twist that only just does the job (I went with 1:10 to be sure) I bought a sako to build it on as I like the action and trigger. I wanted a heavy barrel and a thumb hole laminate stock so that's what I ordered - it's MY rifle. Hope I'm making sense here. I was restricted to a .22cf as its plenty for what I wanted to shoot (awkward firearms people).

 

For you, a copy of the rules for your discipline would be a good idea; I'd cry if I spent that sort of money on a rifle only to find it can't be used in any of the competitions I wished to enter because it was too long, heavy or whatever. Incidentally, my sako has cost around £2300 so far with a further £400 on loading gear (no-one produces a 65gr gameking in .22-250). I first started the project in June and have just heard the barrel will be all finished and proofed roughly the first week in October, the stock should be with me by the end of the month - it's been a long, stressful and expensive few months! However, I'll have EXACTLY what I wanted when its all done.

[Bewsher500]

i don't care what anybody SAYS, 6.5-47 will not perform as well as 260 without running at high pressures(it is a high pressure cart anyway)

don't want to hijack the thread but I am genuinely interested in your findings on this

I shoot neither of these but the 6.5x47 seems to have taken the target world by storm and spawned a host of target/stalking hybrids

 

what do you mean "won't perform" as well?

really interested

[kent]

If it were me doing that route today the .260 would certainly make the short list (but you will shoot it in f-open) this means your up against 7mm magnum calibres and the like, which in equal hands will give a 6.5 a hard time if its a difficult wind. A foxing gun and a competitive rig are not really as compatable as many think but the 6.5mm can run high BC heavier target bullets and a 95 grain v-max for fox.

All I might suggest is shooting FTR with the .308 gives more of a level playing field and with good glass and a custom built gun for purpose you wont be beaten by a worse shooter with a superior calibre. Open class is an arms race, ideal for the rich, the committed or the custom rifle maker. There will always be a need for the top guys to switch to the latest new chambering / bullet to stay ontop

[seeker]

Probably a case of working out what your prime need is and then accepting some limitations with your other aims ... If you want some comparisons of the short 6.5s try the article by demigod ...

And if you're going to shoot heavier (long) bullets seated well out in a 260 have a good chat with your smith about COLs, mag and throat length ...

Others have already posted sensible real world advice above ..

demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/?p=5

[Gimlet]

Many thanks Fister. That is very useful imformation. I take Kent's point about FTR giving everyone a fair crack of the whip, but you are right. The real competition is against myself. Any comps will be imformal club affairs and, yes, if I was rich enough I would have a dedicated F class rifle and a varminter. But I can't. I need a compromise rifle as I do want sporting as well as target use. I'm not out to win trophies but I would like to be moderately competative at club level and improve my technique. I don't want to be pushing distances and comming up against the rifles limitations before I reach my own. That's already hapening with the .222 past 300 yds.

Your observations about .260 against other 6.5 x55 and 6.5x47 echo what a guy told me at the club on saturday. I didn't grasp his point at the time but now with your explanation I do. He also made precisely the same point about the limitations of .308 beyond 800 yards.

I clearly have extensive reading up to do but I'm grateful to be pointed in the right direction. As Fieldwanderer has done, a study of ballistic calculators will help me picture how the round will perform as a varminter and give me an idea of barrel lengths and twist rates to achieve what I'm after.

Please do post pictures of your rifles. And I'd be interested in any recommendation for smiths.

[CharlieT]

Fister - A great post, thank you.

 

I have been weighing up which way to jump (in the same caliber range) as I miss my 6.5x55 and your real world thoughts and experiences have helped dispel the myths.

 

Looks like a .260 would make a good replacement.

[chrisv]

Gimlet,

Are you still trying to come up with an answer to this question? I'm not sure how much more I can add, but I do own one of the "brass shaggers" that Fister talks about in one of his replies.

My 6.5x47 is a semi-custom built on a Remington action. As most people would expect from this cartridge, it is accurate. So much so that I found load development difficult. Everything I tried was sub .5MOA and I gave up trying to get the very last bit of accuracy out of it. Mine seemed to give pressure signs with all of the usual recommended powders at the faster end of the range, even with pretty poor velocities. I eventually went for Viht N150 which gives better than expected velocities with less case problems.

 

I always sneak a look at the fired brass from other 6.5x47s at the range and have seen some pretty bad pressure signs on them. I also know of regular pierced primers, a problem I've never had thankfully.

 

I am going to stick with mine for now as it shoots well and my current tame loads seem to be accurate enough. I'm trying to shoot it out, but the Walther barrel is hard as hell and looks and shoots as good as new after over 1000 rounds. When it does give up, I'm pretty sure i'll go for a 260 next. The Creedmoor looks like a good compromise capacity wise, but could you get brass? I also know from experience of two 260s that they shoot very well.

 

Hope this helps

Chris

[Gimlet]

Gimlet,

Are you still trying to come up with an answer to this question? I'm not sure how much more I can add, but I do own one of the "brass shaggers" that Fister talks about in one of his replies.

My 6.5x47 is a semi-custom built on a Remington action. As most people would expect from this cartridge, it is accurate. So much so that I found load development difficult. Everything I tried was sub .5MOA and I gave up trying to get the very last bit of accuracy out of it. Mine seemed to give pressure signs with all of the usual recommended powders at the faster end of the range, even with pretty poor velocities. I eventually went for Viht N150 which gives better than expected velocities with less case problems.

 

I always sneak a look at the fired brass from other 6.5x47s at the range and have seen some pretty bad pressure signs on them. I also know of regular pierced primers, a problem I've never had thankfully.

 

I am going to stick with mine for now as it shoots well and my current tame loads seem to be accurate enough. I'm trying to shoot it out, but the Walther barrel is hard as hell and looks and shoots as good as new after over 1000 rounds. When it does give up, I'm pretty sure i'll go for a 260 next. The Creedmoor looks like a good compromise capacity wise, but could you get brass? I also know from experience of two 260s that they shoot very well.

 

Hope this helps

Chris

 

Yes still pondering. I'm much obliged to Fister for some very helpful information on both calibre choice and rifle options which has cleared away a lot of the confusion. I'm happy that the .260 will give me what I want. As for brass and bullets, it seems the less I have to rely on American products the better the way supply is going just lately.

Interesting you bring up the subject of barrel life. Bearing in mind as a small deer/ vermin rifle I want to shoot a sub 120 grn bullet at 3000+ fps as well as 140+ grn at 2800 at long range targets. Can I satisfactorily perform both these tasks with the same barrel and if so will the faster hunting loads greatly reduce Fister's estimated 2000 /3000 round barrel life?

[chrisv]

Apart from the 6.5-284, none of the popular 6.5s are famous for being barrel burners. I used to run my 6.5x55 at the levels you are wanting to reach. I had it borescoped after 2000+ rounds and the rifling was still very good. I tend to keep barrels pretty clean, not sure whether this is a factor.

You would be using 40+ grains of powder in the 260 vs 50 grains in the 6.5x55 to get those velocities so you should get a decent number of shots out of the barrel.

[Gimlet]

Nice rifle that Fister. May I ask why only a 20" barrel though? I've been doing some reading up on the .260 and I hadn't realised the velocities it can sustain with heavier bullets at long range. With that in mind I had anticipated at least a 26" barrel to make the rifle dual-purpose. My thinking being the moderate twist rate required by heavier bullets used on the range would need to be coupled with a longish barrel to stabilise the lighter bullets I want for vermin shooting.