Suitable guns/suitable cartidges.

[chacotawas]

I've never shot a goose; in fact, I've never pointed a gun at a goose. And it's a long, long time since I shot a duck. Now, however, opportunity knocks. Keen to learn, I've bought some books. I was surprised to read the following in Mike Swan's good book "Rough Shooting". Talking about wildfowling, he says that his father believed in small shot and they tended to use 6's in Eley Impax with 1oz. of shot, and Hymax at 1 1/4 oz. But one day he ran out of 6's and used some Impax 7's he had in his bag; he found that "they worked admirably"- he missed no more than he usually did, and the proportion of wounded birds "fell dramatically". He says, "Today, for all normal game shooting and wildfowling purposes, I use these 1oz. loads of No.7's, with my gun bored improved cylinder in both barrels. (improved cylinder in both barrels... - my comment) If I were marksman enough to use full choke reliably, I might go up to 6s for extra range, but I know that my shooting would deteriorate dramatically". Even for geese- which he acknowledges "pose a special problem"- he breaks with tradition and uses 4's or 5's rather than 3's. He says, "Earlier this season (early 1990s- my note.) I was surprised by a Canada coming in from behind. I took a hurried shot and it fell very dead to a 1oz. trap load of 7 1/2 shot from quite a reasonable altitude".

 

I think this is a good book ,one which I'd recommend for folk in my kind of situation in relation to rough shooting generally, but I was really surprised to read the above. I was also interested to note that he makes no reference to a need for a 3-inch chamber, though that's maybe implicit in his reference to "Hymax", etc. I wish, though, that he'd spelt that out as I'm thinking that I need to get another, 3" chambered, gun if I'm to make a job of the goose side of things.

 

I guess this subject has been done to death over the years on the forum, but I would like to hear reactions from those with more knowledge than I i.e. everybody on here.

Edited September 29, 2013 by chacotawas

[Penelope]

You'll have to remember that in this book all of the mention of shot sizes and cartridges are lead loads. For shooting wildfowl now, non toxic shot has to be used (unless in Scotland, shooting inland an NOT over water of any kind).

 

With no toxic loads your choices are steel, bismuth and tungsten (ITM) (in price order). Bismuth can be used in any gun (step up a shot size from lead), and steel in a steel proofed gun (step up two shot sizes from lead). I have no experience with any tungsten loads, so cannot comment.

[Chad63]

I personally feel it all depends on your situation, i.e. where and what you shoot. For the last 3 seasons on my local estuary I've been using an old 2 3/4" chambered SxS choked full & half for 90% of my fowling. I've found that by using standard steel cartridges I'm killing duck (from teal to mallard) as far as I ever could with lead. But, the only geese I'm likely to encounter are Canadas of which I'll usually get enough over me at 30 yards or under to suit my needs throughout the season. I do however carry some bismuth 36gr 3's just in case a greylag puts in an appearance.

 

Different story when I'm chasing proper geese in Scotland though. That's when the 10ga gets an airing.

[chacotawas]

Thanks Penelope and Chad63. I should have said I'm in Scotland using lead to shoot ducks and geese in an inland location.

[Shooting2]

I personally wouldn't use 1oz of sevens on geese, but that said any cartridge put in the right place will kill. A distant family member whenever he could get hold of it used to load his 10gauge cartridges with 71/2 shot steel, noticed there's been big debates on here about using the right cartridge (shot size ect..) but I beleive it's what your comfortable using and as long as it does the job and it's legal (non tox) then I don't see a problem

[kent]

Its just a balance between pattern and energy. Small shot will kill geese stone dead in the air head and neck shooting but once the range increases an odd lucky single strike cannot be relied upon for a good kill as it can lack the energy to do the job alone (gaps do occur even in skilled hands). Big shot needs less strikes and has a wider killing area which also includes the body (gaps matter less and even steel BB can shoot clean through a goose body at 40yds) killing is certain with brain or central neck even from a single strike from a BB etc even at range (getting the pattern isn't any easier though). Remember basically Dead geese go a long way on set wings and our aim is DRT

[strangford wildfowler]

I you hit ducks or geese in the head with any load It will die, my grandfather used to use 30 gr 6s on a big hill to shoot geese inland however on the forshore he brought the double 8 and used 70gram 1s or bbs for geese and 42gram 4 s on ducks (these where lead loads) just preference for me 3s 36gr = ducks

Bbs 50 gram = geese

[Wildfowler325]

I you hit ducks or geese in the head with any load It will die, my grandfather used to use 30 gr 6s on a big hill to shoot geese inland however on the forshore he brought the double 8 and used 70gram 1s or bbs for geese and 42gram 4 s on ducks (these where lead loads) just preference for me 3s 36gr = ducks

Bbs 50 gram = geese

Highly dout 70 grams from a 12 gauge at that time period!

[edenman]

Highly dout 70 grams from a 12 gauge at that time period!

Re read it, his grandfather was using an 8 bore with 70 grams of shot.

[Wildfowler325]

Re read it, his grandfather was using an 8 bore with 70 grams of shot.

Oh..... Miss read that bit, sorry

[edenman]

Lol

[strangford wildfowler]

Ha, your all right

[kent]

I you hit ducks or geese in the head with any load It will die

 

Only true in part, it must contain enough energy when it actually gets there. Steel especially the std stuff seriously lacks energy at range, using small low velocity steel shot can and will fail to kill even at quite modest ranges. for instance std velocity no.5 at 40yds is only around 1 1/2 ft lb per pellet, that nor really enough from a single pellet even in the head. Ok get it spot on the right location on the said head- but shotguns don't work like that, you centre the pattern and take what you get as regards strikes. At 20yds things are very different as said energy is approx. double

[strangford wildfowler]

Whatever ye think mate

[kent]

Whatever ye think mate

Without wishing to be rude or start an argument the above is the ballistic fact, not what I think- occasionally we get lucky. If you shoot enough shells at them sooner or later you will get lucky, I have seen a few take so long to come down from up-high you could pour a brew from the flask before they hit the deck. The chronograph and the pattern plate do not exaggerate or mis-guess though and we do need both energy and pattern even when our shooting is perfect

[Big Mat]

Whatever ye think mate

 

If the pellet does not have enough energy, it will not kill. It is a simple fact. You could shoot any size shot at your quarry, but if there isnt enough energy you wont even get lucky. You'll just sit there thinking what the hell is going on. Perhaps you might be best having a little read about things before posting.

[Wildfowler325]

Whatever ye think mate

It wont kill if there isnt enought energy in the pellets