Proof testing reloads

[MAB1954]

I notice some of you on here talk of getting you reloads tested at the proof house, I assume that's the London or Birmingham ones I know of no others in the UK. This seems like a good idea if you are trying to get special loads to work and be with in pressure limits and I guess you get velocity values as well.

I load quite a lot of large lead shot loads, BB, AAA and SSG, all in 12 gauge, these are for fox's. I enjoy pattern testing these at various ranges and recording results and looking on the American forums I do not do to bad with the limited components available here.

For these loads I use American data and consult the companies technical support for advice on using larger shot than the load would have been originally tested with, Lyman, BPI and the American powder companies are all very helpful but it would be great to have pressure/velocity values for these loads and combine that with my pattern results. Would be a great learning curve for me.

Can anyone tell me more about the proof house service, what does it cost, what do you get for your money, how do you post cartridges in the UK etc etc

Many thanks to anyone that uses the service and is willing to past on advice.

[johnphilip]

i think Sits is your man

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/277331-any-data-for-some-herco-powder/page-2

[sitsinhedges]

I don't know how you would post to them but I take mine in by hand because I live just over an hour away from Birmingham Proof House. Your local gunshop should be able to arrange a courier in the same way he can with a gun maybe.

 

The man who tests them is called Wayne Massey and he wants to encourage home loaders to test their shells so charges a reduced rate of £35+vat to test 20 shells. He will take your cartridges and put them on a shelf in his office to acclimatise to the testing temperature and then fire in the next couple of weeks when they reach the front of the queue and send you a signed A4 test result sheet for each recipe which will give the pressures, recoil and velocity and a statement as to whether they pass CIP specs. You need a minimum of 5 shots per recipe to get a decent idea of the potential variation, apparently even the proof loads they use to test shotguns can have a variation of up to 200 bar. Those that fail can be readjusted and retested if you want. The more detail you provide as to what the recipe and spec is the better, ie crimp depth, closed case length, wad type and pressure etc to get a repeatable bench mark

 

For peace of mind it is worth it. I'm currently testing some more 20 gauge loads. 21grams with AS, 23grams with AS, 24 grams with A1 and retesting a 28 gram load with A0 but reducing both the powder and shot load by 1gram and 1grain because it just failed to pass last time. The fibre version passed with flying colours despite using a plastic obturator. Also got some of my 12 gauge 30gram AS loads being checked as I was going there anyway so the extra cost was negligible.

Edited March 15, 2014 by sitsinhedges

[Guest cookoff013]

I don't know how you would post to them but I take mine in by hand because I live just over an hour away from Birmingham Proof House. Your local gunshop should be able to arrange a courier in the same way he can with a gun maybe.

 

The man who tests them is called Wayne Massey and he wants to encourage home loaders to test their shells so charges a reduced rate of £35+vat to test 20 shells. He will take your cartridges and put them on a shelf in his office to acclimatise to the testing temperature and then fire in the next couple of weeks when they reach the front of the queue and send you a signed A4 test result sheet for each recipe which will give the pressures, recoil and velocity and a statement as to whether they pass CIP specs. You need a minimum of 5 shots per recipe to get a decent idea of the potential variation, apparently even the proof loads they use to test shotguns can have a variation of up to 200 bar. Those that fail can be readjusted and retested if you want. The more detail you provide as to what the recipe and spec is the better, ie crimp depth, closed case length, wad type and pressure etc to get a repeatable bench mark

 

For peace of mind it is worth it. I'm currently testing some more 20 gauge loads. 21grams with AS, 23grams with AS, 24 grams with A1 and retesting a 28 gram load with A0 but reducing both the powder and shot load by 1gram and 1grain because it just failed to pass last time. The fibre version passed with flying colours despite using a plastic obturator. Also got some of my 12 gauge 30gram AS loads being checked as I was going there anyway so the extra cost was negligible.

Yes +1

 

The 1 grain reduction should have been enough.

The service is excellent. And it tells the truth. Not opinion.

[aris]

I would be interested in seeing a sample report if you don't mind posting one.

[Guest cookoff013]

I would be interested in seeing a sample report if you don't mind posting one.

Sample reports have personal details on. But the report is declaration, shot by shot, data, data digest,then confirmation of cip specs. If it fails. Then big red letters do not use. Also should have the bill.

[aris]

You can redact anything personal

[super sharp shooter]

Ifs well worth the drive to get your loads tested and signed of as safe plus it's nice to have a look around the proof house. My perfect job.

[sitsinhedges]

Two very similar 20 gauge loads with dramatically different results. The ingredients and construction are only what the customer states and are not verified by the proof house. An individual shell can go above the maximum average pressure by 15% and still pass proof as long as the average of all stays below.

 

 

[Guest cookoff013]

Cheers Andy. I'm not good with posting up pics. But that's the same format I have. The bottom portion would be the stats, and the load summary. I bet if you loaded the failed one again and have it tested to HP. Criteria it would pass. I think for 20gauge is same as 12. 1050bar.

 

I do 10 shots per load. But the way I do stuff, run close to limits I need to be absolutely sure the load is good. Then when I do a "production" run, drop by .5 or 1 grain if the load is warm. Absolute safe reloading with performance to boot.

 

Grand job.

[MAB1954]

Thanks for the replies guys all very helpful. All I have to do now is work out the logistics of getting cartridges from North of Scotland to Birmingham Proof House. I think I will contact the guy at the proof house and see what he suggests.

Thanks again for all your information you have shared.

[kent]

Two very similar 20 gauge loads with dramatically different results. The ingredients and construction are only what the customer states and are not verified by the proof house. An individual shell can go above the maximum average pressure by 15% and still pass proof as long as the average of all stays below.

 

 

 

Thanks, interesting stuff

[aris]

Very cool - thank you for sharing!

[Tad-blody]

Amazing, 0.3 grains more powder in a shorter case - pressure limits busted yet velocity is down.

Did you weigh each shot and powder charge on a scale or was it as thrown by the bushes on the loader?

Thanks for sharing it's fascinating stuff.

[sitsinhedges]

Amazing, 0.3 grains more powder in a shorter case - pressure limits busted yet velocity is down.

Did you weigh each shot and powder charge on a scale or was it as thrown by the bushes on the loader?

Thanks for sharing it's fascinating stuff.

 

It was all hand weighed and double checked. I recall the wad was compressed slightly more as well which I believe would account for a lot of the difference as the initial pressure build up would have less room to expand into before the crimp opened.

[aris]

Do they send back the spent shells?

[Guest cookoff013]

no, its all disposed off.

 

they do not collect the hulls, wads and spent shot.

 

the data is the outcome. why would you want to collect spent shells as they have been loaded / reloaded a few times.

 

shells are disposable, the data isnt.

[aris]

If you re-load and used a virgin case, it might be interesting to see how the shell casing fared after firing. Or if you were testing brass shotshells, you might want them back.

[Guest cookoff013]

If you re-load and used a virgin case, it might be interesting to see how the shell casing fared after firing. Or if you were testing brass shotshells, you might want them back.

 

none of those things really matters.

 

as long as the pressure is below the limit, it doesnt matter. most shell plastic is getting thinner and less dense (less polymer) so its cheaper. if you look at world cups after firing the section where the powder is, has been used up the plastic is really thin, where the powder / pressure has had an effect. if you hold them up to the light it is clearer.

 

if the load passes CIP, wouldnt you just fire one at home / club to see what it does?