kiffy Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 hi guys, i know for general loads it isnt that financially viable to reload 12 bore carts but what about 410? with them being more expensive to buy and using less powder and shot i thought it may be worth a go, especially as ive seen roll over tools which seem easy to use and i presume are cheap enough compared to a press Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I think the other gauges are viable on a materials basis as are specialist 12 gauge loads (none toxic etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 How many cartridges do you fire each year?..I have 410s and they are an occassional play for fun at clays and squirrels near the barns......the economies of reloading rarely seem to make sense,although the 'reloading thing' is a much deeper decision it would appear to me than purely financial...I have never reloaded but buying the gear seems to be @ £200 for the equipment then you need the components etc......410 cartridges are about £6.50 per box......do you use more than a 1000 per annum?Do you have a wish for unusual loads?...can you be bothered?!..No doubt some of the reloaders on here will give an accurate idea as to costings but from previous threads it never seems convincing purely on money grounds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yes it is and with RTO if you already have scales you can make the rest of the tooling. Its not all about cost though, you can get the exact load you want and you don't have to order and store a set amount say 1 full slab. For instance you might want a light 2" load for rats round a building, Slugs for foxes if you FAC allows perhaps you want to give 7 1/2 shot a whirl in your gun. You will get roughly 700 rounds out of a £40 tub of LilGun powder as the charges are about equal to a Hornet load, primers about £50 a 1000 which is £2.67 per 25 plus shot (some make their own but the .410 std load is only 1/2 oz) plus wad (again its possible to make your own ) and then the cases which I am currently saving up from fired factory, if you know other users they might do the same for you? Personally I tend to buy a box of 25 .410 at a time as and when I am in the shop for other stuff, as I only use them for an odd walk about picking my shots or shooting pests around the grounds but I am still planning to reload and as a ball park figure I am likely to save is I think 50% or so in the quantities I buy that isn't drastic but it adds up over the years and like I say adds flexibility to what you can have to hand. I don't want to buy ten boxes of .410 a go as it will take an age to use them and 1000 is a ridiculous amount of dry / warm storage. I don't know if anyone else fancies it but I can see no reason why PW members cannot form their own buying group for import of components in bulk as there is no licence required for wads and cases? I am sure the likes of BP in the States etc. could cut a deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 primers are about £33 per K it is not viable if you want a single box of .410 shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Kent, hi I use eley trap 14g 7.5s ..cracking shell on rats and and squirrels @ 15-20 yards...out of interest how much is the tooling/scales etc(assuming have not got nor have the skill to make them)?..I get your flexibility arguments,but the OP asked about financial viability,it seems to me you have to be using a fair few to break even after initial outlay on bulk buying of powder/primers/shot/cases/scales....tools...personally could'nt ever seeing me wanting slugs for Charlie out of a 410..I would'nt be accurate enough with it at typical fox ranges...I would think most 410s are used like you for odd walk about/closer range vermin so looking at @ 1/2 oz 6/7/8 shot,..if you can save @ £3 per box in that sphere and assuming full set/up/components comes in @ £250 then you are 'in the money' after 2000 cartridges,well for me that would be @ 15years!!..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 primers are about £33 per K it is not viable if you want a single box of .410 shells. Like I hinted at depends, nosler bullets are dearer than PPU etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Kent, hi I use eley trap 14g 7.5s ..cracking shell on rats and and squirrels @ 15-20 yards...out of interest how much is the tooling/scales etc(assuming have not got nor have the skill to make them)?..I get your flexibility arguments,but the OP asked about financial viability,it seems to me you have to be using a fair few to break even after initial outlay on bulk buying of powder/primers/shot/cases/scales....tools...personally could'nt ever seeing me wanting slugs for Charlie out of a 410..I would'nt be accurate enough with it at typical fox ranges...I would think most 410s are used like you for odd walk about/closer range vermin so looking at @ 1/2 oz 6/7/8 shot,..if you can save @ £3 per box in that sphere and assuming full set/up/components comes in @ £250 then you are 'in the money' after 2000 cartridges,well for me that would be @ 15years!!..... Never tried them I stick to 18grm fibre Eley with the .410 you see. RTO £40? Scales £25, little punch to nock out spent primer, little mallet and a few Ramin or other hardwood dowels?. Don't assume anything on accuracy of slug loads till you have tried it, my point remains Versatility if I wanted to try a few slugs if I wanted a fibre 7 1/2 load. I should only need to nock up 25-50 a time but they should all be exactly what I wanted tuned and tested to the gun in question. Hand loads and costs are a difficult thing because it depends were you take the factors, tooling lasts a long time and retains its capital value very well in view of inflation it often sells for more than you bought it for. I bet you could sell a .410 RTO bit and a set of scales on here within a week and after a few years of use depreciation (the true cost of plant) might be about nil. If I shot a lot of .410 I should hand load in a very different way to that I plan, making my own shot, cutting my own wads (maybe making the tooling to do so), buying componants in large quantities etc. churning the things out on a fancy machine Now then I should certainly look carefully at costs as it is for moochers and sportsmen / enthusiasts like myself as much as £3 a box is nothing it has its own satisfaction and cuts fuel costs to the RFD. Besides is way better than the Junk on TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Perhaps this will interest you: http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/278202-lanes-410-loader-and-priming-tool/ Looks like an interesting alternative to the discontinued Lee Loader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 As with most things the economy of scale comes into it. If you are happy with the Eleys then fine but as Kent points out if you want 7 1/2s in fibre it's time to get the reloading kit out (I like 19.5g 7 or 7 1/2 with fibre wad for decoying). Treat it like a hobby; for a few pounds initial outlay it can be a great way to spend a few hours on a cold wet night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 As with most things the economy of scale comes into it. If you are happy with the Eleys then fine but as Kent points out if you want 7 1/2s in fibre it's time to get the reloading kit out (I like 19.5g 7 or 7 1/2 with fibre wad for decoying). Treat it like a hobby; for a few pounds initial outlay it can be a great way to spend a few hours on a cold wet night. You got some proper data for that load please ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonicdmb Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 this may be some use http://www.fourten.org.uk/reloading.html. I did look into using 303 brass to form cases but the 410 I had was past it so went no further than collecting some brass at a range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 this may be some use http://www.fourten.org.uk/reloading.html. I did look into using 303 brass to form cases but the 410 I had was past it so went no further than collecting some brass at a range. Don't go down the .303 route it's a waste of time Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I have read about using .444 Marlin for reloading .410 - but I supect fining that brass may prove difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 You got some proper data for that load please ? I'll dig it out when I get home. It is the one off the .410 website. I loaded it up and put it through the proof house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'll dig it out when I get home. It is the one off the .410 website. I loaded it up and put it through the proof house. That's appreciated, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwizard Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yes it is and with RTO if you already have scales you can make the rest of the tooling. Its not all about cost though, you can get the exact load you want and you don't have to order and store a set amount say 1 full slab. For instance you might want a light 2" load for rats round a building, Slugs for foxes if you FAC allows perhaps you want to give 7 1/2 shot a whirl in your gun. You will get roughly 700 rounds out of a £40 tub of LilGun powder as the charges are about equal to a Hornet load, primers about £50 a 1000 which is £2.67 per 25 plus shot (some make their own but the .410 std load is only 1/2 oz) plus wad (again its possible to make your own ) and then the cases which I am currently saving up from fired factory, if you know other users they might do the same for you? Personally I tend to buy a box of 25 .410 at a time as and when I am in the shop for other stuff, as I only use them for an odd walk about picking my shots or shooting pests around the grounds but I am still planning to reload and as a ball park figure I am likely to save is I think 50% or so in the quantities I buy that isn't drastic but it adds up over the years and like I say adds flexibility to what you can have to hand. I don't want to buy ten boxes of .410 a go as it will take an age to use them and 1000 is a ridiculous amount of dry / warm storage. I don't know if anyone else fancies it but I can see no reason why PW members cannot form their own buying group for import of components in bulk as there is no licence required for wads and cases? I am sure the likes of BP in the States etc. could cut a deal? I don't know if anyone else fancies it but I can see no reason why PW members cannot form their own buying group for import of components in bulk as there is no licence required for wads and cases? I am sure the likes of BP in the States etc. could cut a deal? I would be interested , been reloading 12 gauge for around thirty years but just starting on .410 and 28 gauge ,smaller gauges make best savings plus as you say you can do custom loads . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I don't know if anyone else fancies it but I can see no reason why PW members cannot form their own buying group for import of components in bulk as there is no licence required for wads and cases? I am sure the likes of BP in the States etc. could cut a deal? I would be interested , been reloading 12 gauge for around thirty years but just starting on .410 and 28 gauge ,smaller gauges make best savings plus as you say you can do custom loads . in theory it works, but no-one will sort it out, and there is always the people who commit to huge numbers of stuff, then when its here claim they only wanted eg 100 wads. then after 3 months they try and buy another 100 wads. at a cut price because the import tax has already been paid. same with buying powder, etc. someone always gets caught short., and its usually the guy who buys it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Its as simple as money up front inclusive of any extra charges such as tax which often comes after shipment is received, depending or carrier. If you want 1000 wads you pay for a 1000wads plus carriage and tax or you get nowt ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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