poontang Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 depends on what you base your 13 times higher rate on. there was a high gun related suicide rate before 2007. after which they decided not to allow people to keep ammuniton with the millitary weapons at home and the rate was cut in half. are you refering to gun related "crime"being 13 times higher than here in the uk? The figures are based on the gun homicide rate per 100,000 people. Switzerland has a rate of 0.52, the UK a rate of 0.04. The figures are from 2010 (the latest I could find) so taken at a time military ammunition wasn't kept at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) I think I read somewhere that even the Scottish police were putting in a complaint against the licensing procedure with claims that it can't be enforced and in fact WON'T be enforced. There you go even then police are threatening to not enforce the licensing regime. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/police-chiefs-voice-concerns-over-plans-to-license-air-guns.22068223 Edited March 22, 2014 by Steppenwolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I think I read somewhere that even the Scottish police were putting in a complaint against the licensing procedure with claims that it can't be enforced and in fact WON'T be enforced. There you go even then police are threatening to not enforce the licensing regime. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/police-chiefs-voice-concerns-over-plans-to-license-air-guns.22068223 Interesting; yet a Scottish government spokeswoman goes on to say they 'will' still introduce legislation in the next session. Sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Basically this matter of how Scottish government have treated law abiding air-gun shooters and people asking for the law not to be changed should be shown to anyone that might think the Scottish government is acting in any way democratically. Over 90 of admissions to their air gun licesing consultation were anti licesing and they still carry on. If this is not a definition of an illegitimate government then I don't know what is. Edited March 22, 2014 by Steppenwolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 When the shotgun license was brought in in 1968 there was about 10% initial uptake of license applications. People then as now know there is actually no reason that licensing can reduce crime. This is likely to happen in Scotland if they license low power air guns. Tne fraction of people licensing them will be probably between 8-15%. Wasn't there a licence for carrying and using a shotgun (and air rifle at some point, not sure when) requirement from 1870 - 10/- from the Post Office. Mine for 1958 is on the wall behind me. I think the 1968 licence covered possession as opposed to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Ok, so far we have gone as far off topic as handguns and semi rifles. This is not the same thing, an air rifle is seen as a starting point for a young person, yet it still can do so much damage. There are huge numbers of them and not many locked away from those who either see them as a toy or as a quick route to a power fix. If they are licensed then I have no problem with it, all my other firearms are so why not? If it then gives the air rifle the same status as every other projectile firing firearm it is no bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Ok, so far we have gone as far off topic as handguns and semi rifles. This is not the same thing, an air rifle is seen as a starting point for a young person, yet it still can do so much damage. There are huge numbers of them and not many locked away from those who either see them as a toy or as a quick route to a power fix. If they are licensed then I have no problem with it, all my other firearms are so why not? If it then gives the air rifle the same status as every other projectile firing firearm it is no bad thing. +1. Provided the licence is not overly expensive and is a straight forward procedure for the youngsters in particular to obtain. The original gun licence had some safety advice on the back and perhaps could be extended to include the responsibilities of ownership - for want of a better wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Ok, so far we have gone as far off topic as handguns and semi rifles. This is not the same thing, an air rifle is seen as a starting point for a young person. Fair points, but regarding your first sentence, the point I was trying to make is that licensing on its own will not ensure the acts which it is introduced to combat ( allegedly) will be achieved. Air rifles are indeed seen as a starting point for a young person to enter the world of shooting, but now licensing threatens to stifle that very basic level of entry. As has been said, there are already laws in place to cater for the misuse of firearms, all licensing will achieve is to cut off the supply of young blood. Yet another unnecessary obstacle placed in the doorstep in my opinion. Edited March 22, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Perhaps what is needed is a harsher attitude to criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime, perhaps also life for illegal possession as illegal possession is intended for only one thing. The route of licensing does not deter those who want a gun and are prepared to use it, its whether that use is sensible and considerate (legitimate and will comply) or criminal and never would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Current law dictates that if you have a child under 18 then you must lock your air rifle in a cabinet, or similar, to prevent that child gaining access to it. SO!! How many of you actually do this, and if not why not? And if lots of law-abiding shooters don't lock up their air guns to comply with the law, then what chance do we have that the scum will seek a licence or hand them in................not much methinks.. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Current law dictates that if you have a child under 18 then you must lock your air rifle in a cabinet, or similar, to prevent that child gaining access to it. SO!! How many of you actually do this, and if not why not? It says nothing about locking up airguns just keeping them "secure" from access from young people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Oh sure, and if you have just "Secured" them and your 16 year old son decides to "Un-secure" them in order to have a pop at the local cats then I'm sure you would be OK with your local constabulary. Do you honestly believe that you would have a defence in that you locked your air rifle in the cupboard under the stairs and that you honestly believed it was impervious to your teenage son and his mates if they really decided to get hold of it. I'm sure the local rag would have a field-day if that happened, and you would be up $h!t-creek without the proverbial paddle. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/crime-and-security-act-2010-commencement-no-2-order-2011-air-weapons Yes it does say "Secure" but so does shotgun legislation and we all know where that would lead to if you didn't lock it up in a cabinet and it got stolen. Anyway this isn't about locking up air rifles, it's about licensing them and whilst we have honest law-abiding shooters who honestly believe that they really don't have to lock their air rifles away from young kids, then what chance do we have that the great unwashed of the UK will really go and licence them. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Do you honestly believe that you would have a defence in that you locked your air rifle in the cupboard under the stairs and that you honestly believed it was impervious to your teenage son and his mates if they really decided to get hold of it. If it was down to that decision of: "I have to lock up my air rifle in my gun cabinet because I can't trust my nutter son" maybe you shouldn't be living with him anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 If it was down to that decision of: "I have to lock up my air rifle in my gun cabinet because I can't trust my nutter son" maybe you shouldn't be living with him anymore. Oh for goodness sake, My youngest son is 37 years old and doesn't live with me any more. My argument was "IF" one was in that position, not "I'm worried about my own lad" Geeze talk about trying to find any excuse for picking nits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Exactly it wouldn't even apply in your case as your son is over 18. YOu made the comment about a hypothetical out of control teenager finding his dad's air gun and causing mayhem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 OH dear.......time to read my own signature methinks G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Perhaps what is needed is a harsher attitude to criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime, perhaps also life for illegal possession as illegal possession is intended for only one thing. The route of licensing does not deter those who want a gun and are prepared to use it, its whether that use is sensible and considerate (legitimate and will comply) or criminal and never would. Kes - there's a problem with this. I know you are speaking about criminal illegal possession but it might be difficult in law to distinguish those who are in illegal possession as a result of a 'Dead Uncle' scenario etc. My father ran his old comrades association and when the D-Day veterans started passing away the number of widows who called in having found something made in Germany under the bed ......or in the wardrobe........ Then of course there are licensing 'mishaps'.................. Incidentally if anyone ever finds themselves in this position BASC have proved to be of invaluable assistance and advice towards discrete resolution with the Police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 The problem that we have and most of Europe sadly too, is that the vast majority of the population do not understand gun ownership and thus can become anti very easily. I try to promote gun ownership at every opportunity and have taken a few non-shooters to John Bidwells lovely place in Suffolk and without exception all have had a wonderful time. My daughter had her hen do there and again a few new converts. This is something we all should try to do if only to try to change perception. Plus wherever possible if someone lets the side down we should let them know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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