snipers eye Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 have heard this term used "torque setting" when refering to accuracy problems with hmr,seems if the action bolts are not porperly torqued,accuracy can suffer,any one ever heard of this?or is it nonsence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, heard something but you really should spend more time shooting it and less time worrying. Just do them up tight and leave. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tighten them up shoot it get great groups make a witness make on the pin. Always tighten back to there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Either grunt plus a turn or shear minus half a turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 If it makes much tangible difference it point to faulty inletting / bedding (serious rf benchrest etc perhaps). The Mk1 hand can get pretty good and consistent at replicating torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 . The Mk1 hand can get pretty good and consistent at replicating torque Not a good idea for infrequent application and particularly by someone with no technical background. If memory serves me right, there are six fuel tanks in each mainplane of a Vulcan aircraft. Each tank has a fuel recuperator which is in several sections because as a whole it will not fit through the tank access hole. Therefore, assembly is done inside the tank and each one has 60 or more bolts which are all torque loaded to 25lbf.ins. The work schedule was such that all tanks were in a similar state of progress but compounded by a lack of torque drivers for this particular job. To make a case for more, our boss got his boss to witness a load of us doing the job with 2BA spanners. He then measured the result - bearing in mind we're talking skilled technicians here who did the work frequently - which varied from 15 to 40 lbf.ins. We got the necessary tools in short order. Try that margin of error at 50 lbf.ft and you'll soon appreciate the origin of 'shear less half a turn' or, on the other hand, the Air Accident guys specifying separation of control rods due to incorrect assembly as the cause of the accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Not a good idea for infrequent application and particularly by someone with no technical background. If memory serves me right, there are six fuel tanks in each mainplane of a Vulcan aircraft. Each tank has a fuel recuperator which is in several sections because as a whole it will not fit through the tank access hole. Therefore, assembly is done inside the tank and each one has 60 or more bolts which are all torque loaded to 25lbf.ins. The work schedule was such that all tanks were in a similar state of progress but compounded by a lack of torque drivers for this particular job. To make a case for more, our boss got his boss to witness a load of us doing the job with 2BA spanners. He then measured the result - bearing in mind we're talking skilled technicians here who did the work frequently - which varied from 15 to 40 lbf.ins. We got the necessary tools in short order. Try that margin of error at 50 lbf.ft and you'll soon appreciate the origin of 'shear less half a turn' or, on the other hand, the Air Accident guys specifying separation of control rods due to incorrect assembly as the cause of the accident. So what you're saying is don't guess at it, or find someone that restores Vulcan bombers and knows what they are doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 or find someone that restores Vulcan bombers and knows what they are doing Yep, but hurry up, we're all on our last legs. Seriously though, if a instruction book should give a torque value, it's there for a reason and it will be quite low for anything on a rifle, then a suitable driver/wrench will not cost much and most people will know someone with access to a load tester. This will bring welsh warrior's valid point into play. The bottom line is that 'easy outs' were invented for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Check out rimfire central, there's loads of really interesting stuff on there that will give you loads to think about and save you loads of money, you'll spend more time on there than you will out in the field shooting. There's mention of "Torque settings" "Bolt shims" "Triggers" "Rim thickness gauges" Oh! There's loads you'll love it, fill ya boots, ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Check out rimfire central, there's loads of really interesting stuff on there that will give you loads to think about and save you loads of money, you'll spend more time on there than you will out in the field shooting. There's mention of "Torque settings" "Bolt shims" "Triggers" "Rim thickness gauges" Oh! There's loads you'll love it, fill ya boots, ;-) I bet the wheel barrow tyre is flat, the wheel squeaks and the stainless steel spade is rusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 The bearings have worn out on the barrow and the SS spade is now my mole spike its had that much use. lol I use my tool's (all of them) as often as I can, ide be out later but got a darts match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Not a good idea for infrequent application and particularly by someone with no technical background. If memory serves me right, there are six fuel tanks in each mainplane of a Vulcan aircraft. Each tank has a fuel recuperator which is in several sections because as a whole it will not fit through the tank access hole. Therefore, assembly is done inside the tank and each one has 60 or more bolts which are all torque loaded to 25lbf.ins. The work schedule was such that all tanks were in a similar state of progress but compounded by a lack of torque drivers for this particular job. To make a case for more, our boss got his boss to witness a load of us doing the job with 2BA spanners. He then measured the result - bearing in mind we're talking skilled technicians here who did the work frequently - which varied from 15 to 40 lbf.ins. We got the necessary tools in short order. Try that margin of error at 50 lbf.ft and you'll soon appreciate the origin of 'shear less half a turn' or, on the other hand, the Air Accident guys specifying separation of control rods due to incorrect assembly as the cause of the accident. Consistant from one stock removal to another by the same user, we are not talking of aircraft, cylinder heads on race cars or turbines in a power station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Consistant from one stock removal to another by the same user, we are not talking of aircraft, cylinder heads on race cars or turbines in a power station. Good Lord, just how often do you remove yours? Not everyone is an expert on all matters or mechanically minded. If they were, we'd never be able to find an armourer or gunsmith when we want one as they'd have all gone out of business and PW would simply be just exactly what it says on the tin. If, in the event that the manufacturer does specify a figure for bolt installation, then I would suggest that spending a couple of quid on a tool to enable this to be done properly and consistently as opposed to an occasional random graunch is going to be more beneficial in terms of accuracy than a miniscule change in atmospheric pressure or height ASL For someone pedantic in so many other areas, it seems strange you are somewhat Allah Kefach on this point. Not everyone is sufficiently knowledgeable and/or skilled that they can fly in the face of advice by the maker. Additionally, in the event of a problem, then having done the job properly, then this is one possible fault that can probably be negated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Good Lord, just how often do you remove yours? Not everyone is an expert on all matters or mechanically minded. If they were, we'd never be able to find an armourer or gunsmith when we want one as they'd have all gone out of business and PW would simply be just exactly what it says on the tin. If, in the event that the manufacturer does specify a figure for bolt installation, then I would suggest that spending a couple of quid on a tool to enable this to be done properly and consistently as opposed to an occasional random graunch is going to be more beneficial in terms of accuracy than a miniscule change in atmospheric pressure or height ASL For someone pedantic in so many other areas, it seems strange you are somewhat Allah Kefach on this point. Not everyone is sufficiently knowledgeable and/or skilled that they can fly in the face of advice by the maker. Additionally, in the event of a problem, then having done the job properly, then this is one possible fault that can probably be negated. Heck, how can you say so much without a clear point? The fact remains that I do not feel torque is very relevant when we are talking of a wood or injection moulded plastic stock on a rimfire that is in itself subject to change . The exception to this is if the action is not "well and evenly seated in the stock" re-torqueing the screws each time prior to shooting might then have an effect-correcting the fault will have far more effect though. Top Rimfire BR shooters record results with different ammo batches and torque settings so some result is obtainable but I doubt that will be discernible or relevant outside of this type of competition. manufacturers are not talking any more than preventing damage when talking torque settings on action screws, like I say its not a turbine in a power station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 manufacturers are not talking any more than preventing damage when talking torque settings on action screws, Yep, that is also true so why risk the chance of damage? The other benefit is that possibly having forked out several hundred £s on the rifle when a figure is specified your warranty can be protected by showing that the loading was not exceeded in the event of a problem. Worth a couple of quid surely? Fister has a point, I'm out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 @ 6 N.m or 4.3 ft lbs is the usual torque for smallbore match rifles, so that would be a good starting point. But if you are only using a screwdriver then just under FT should be OK. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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