UKIP

[Gimlet]

I like the free trade and access to markets and agree that there should be parity in many trade and social laws, I also understand the international negotiating advantages of being a key member of the world's largest ecomony, but I do not like the politicization of the EU and I do have concerns over its long term future and aims. I do however believe that we need a healthy debate and an open and honest referendum on our future within the EU and NOT an all-in or all-out vote as UKIP want, and for that reason I will not support UKIP.

 

The EU is not the world's largest economy by a long way. And it's share of world trade is declining steadily and has been for years. Britain enjoys no trade advantage by being part of the EU. We are forbidden under the terms of our membership from negotiating bilateral trade agreements with other nations outside the EU. Every trade arrangement we have with every country in the world with whom we do business is overseen by the EU and controlled to suit the needs of the EU in its pursuit of statehood, not the needs of Britain.

I'd welcome an honest debate, but we can't have one if one side is starting on the false premise that the EU is a free trade bloc that merely needs reforming to work properly. The EU cannot be reformed. It is not and never was a trading bloc. It has not got out of hand or lost its way, this is how it was supposed to be.

[henry d]

How can it be dirty tricks if someone poops in their own nest?

[woodcock11]

 

Dysfunctional?

 

You need look no further than Westminster for the most dysfunctional bunch of misfits ever assembled in one place.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAid4p7l2hM

 

Perhaps if the braying Tory oiks and champagne socialists in Westminster showed even half the humility of Mr Farage they wouldn't be floundering in the cesspit of deceit and corruption they now find themselves.

 

Roll on the 22nd May. It's just the start. Look at what's happening in the Netherlands, France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and now Germany.

The Eu have been well and truly Busted.

 

The dream's over...We're all waking up!!

Your blind loyalty to Farage, who you obviously think can do no wrong, reminds me so much of North Korea and that other clown Kim Jong-un. "Two supreme leaders" who are both a total waste of space and followed by people who either cannot [in the case of the North Korea] or will not [in the case of the UK] realise that each is a total disaster for their respective countries.

[overandunder2012]

 

 

In my opinion if you want out of the EU you have to vote UKIP.

sadly you maybe right about that

[Gimlet]

Your blind loyalty to Farage, who you obviously think can do no wrong, reminds me so much of North Korea and that other clown Kim Jong-un. "Two supreme leaders" who are both a total waste of space and followed by people who either cannot [in the case of the North Korea] or will not [in the case of the UK] realise that each is a total disaster for their respective countries.

 

Equating Farage with Kim Jong Un. Now that's getting pretty desperate.

Is there an oriental version of Godwin's law?

[poontang]

Your blind loyalty to Farage, who you obviously think can do no wrong, reminds me so much of North Korea and that other clown Kim Jong-un. "Two supreme leaders" who are both a total waste of space and followed by people who either cannot [in the case of the North Korea] or will not [in the case of the UK] realise that each is a total disaster for their respective countries.

 

Not so.

 

If you look at my post #70 you'll see there's no 'blind loyalty' on my part.

 

Your blind loyalty to the unelected, corrupt and scheming dictators in Brussels is unswerving however.

 

We're already seeing the disaster created by the political elite and their 'supreme leaders' in their ivory towers of the Eu.

 

The European project is, and always has been, about creating a superstate. A United States of Europe. You're welcome to it, but most people are beginning to see the truth now, and they won't be misled any more.

 

The Eu are a very, very dangerous organisation.

[FalconFN]

We don't need EU membership to enjoy free trade and access to markets! EU membership makes perfect sense for many countries in Europe but not for the UK.

 

If you think you'll get a vote on EU membership with any other party you are being fooled.

 

Can UKIP govern the country properly? I doubt it.

 

Can they make more of a mess than Labour? Possibly.

 

Does UKIP present the only glimmer of hope in escaping the expensive handcuffs of the EU? YES!

 

In my opinion if you want out of the EU you have to vote UKIP.

But I don't want us to be out of the EU, and I don't see the problem of having certain Europe-wide laws that enable easier trade and co-operation but I also don't like the politicization of the EU and the direction it is heading at the moment.

[Fisherman Mike]

Good for a laugh...

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU-dyvZDu7g

[Munzy]

But I don't want us to be out of the EU, and I don't see the problem of having certain Europe-wide laws that enable easier trade and co-operation but I also don't like the politicization of the EU and the direction it is heading at the moment.

I'm not aware of any Europe-wide laws that enable easier trade... in fact quite the opposite if you're talking global trade.

[FalconFN]

 

The EU is not the world's largest economy by a long way. I think you'll find it is according to most international organisations - only the IMF has it second to the USA. And it's share of world trade is declining steadily and has been for years. Britain enjoys no trade advantage by being part of the EU It clearly does have trade advantages as it also does with commonweath countries and any other country that has a trade agreement with the UK. We are forbidden under the terms of our membership from negotiating bilateral trade agreements with other nations outside the EU I'm interested in that, I was not aware of any obstruction in that respect as we have bilateral trade agreements with many countries outside the EU and we continue to seek more out. Every trade arrangement we have with every country in the world with whom we do business is overseen by the EU and controlled to suit the needs of the EU in its pursuit of statehood, not the needs of Britain Again I don't think that is strictly true, we have to abide by certain rules set by the EU and the WTO but it is not controlled by Europe and the UK can benefit from any agreement it can make within that framework.

I'd welcome an honest debate, but we can't have one if one side is starting on the false premise that the EU is a free trade bloc that merely needs reforming to work properly. The EU cannot be reformed. It is not and never was a trading bloc. It has not got out of hand or lost its way, this is how it was supposed to be. But this is not set in stone and as a nation we have some sway - what we don't have is the discussion or chance to voice our opinion to steer the politicians in the direction we want, whatever that may be.

Edited April 26, 2014 by FalconFN

[woodcock11]

 

Not so.

 

If you look at my post #70 you'll see there's no 'blind loyalty' on my part.

 

Your blind loyalty to the unelected, corrupt and scheming dictators in Brussels is unswerving however.

 

We're already seeing the disaster created by the political elite and their 'supreme leaders' in their ivory towers of the Eu.

 

The European project is, and always has been, about creating a superstate. A United States of Europe. You're welcome to it, but most people are beginning to see the truth now, and they won't be misled any more.

 

The Eu are a very, very dangerous organisation.

This is being nothing short of ridiculous

 

You posted at 70

It's far from a protest vote though. That's the mistake the other three mainstream parties have been making for years. They've been ignoring the views of the voters for so long something had to give eventually. Ukip aren't perfect, far from it, but they're a breath of fresh air to a public who are crying out for someone who will answer a question with a yes or a no, someone who has the balls to take on the establishment and debate the issues that affect most peoples everyday lives.

I'm 100% behind them in the Eu elections, and then I'll see what they have to offer for the general election next year.

 

So what you are saying is that UKip are not perfect, far from it, but still you are100% behind them in the EU elections. You would fit in very well with the scheme of things in North Korea and many other undemocratic regimes - if that really is your mantra.

 

That signifies "blind obedience" and is hardly a vote for a true democracy.

 

If something is not perfect, then you do not follow it without question do you - really and if you are being honest to yourself?

 

I suggest you let that sink in, think about it [if you can] sleep on it and maybe - just maybe wake up on Sunday morning and realise that you are actually - just wait for it - plain wrong.

 

And by the way, I am not "scared" or "afraid" of UKiP as you and many of your fellow travellers claim that all of us, who query Farage, are - why should we be? He is a clown pretending to be a politician with just one issue under his belt, or is it that UKip and their fellow travellers have an agenda that we should be afraid of? If so, them maybe we - as the electorate - should be told?

 

No doubt you will come with some sort of answer - you predictably always do - but it will be - as ever - pure rubbish. I will leave it at that.

Edited April 26, 2014 by woodcock11

[kdubya]

 

 

No doubt you will come with some sort of answer - you predictably always do - but it will be - as ever - pure rubbish. I will leave it at that.

hurray that's another non democrat out of it. lets just see how the people decide eh, IE if more than 50% want an elected clown fantastic that's better than having an unelected clown, did you vote for Ashton?

 

KW

Edited April 26, 2014 by kdubya

[Boromir]

This is being nothing short of ridiculous

 

You posted at 70

It's far from a protest vote though. That's the mistake the other three mainstream parties have been making for years. They've been ignoring the views of the voters for so long something had to give eventually. Ukip aren't perfect, far from it, but they're a breath of fresh air to a public who are crying out for someone who will answer a question with a yes or a no, someone who has the balls to take on the establishment and debate the issues that affect most peoples everyday lives.

I'm 100% behind them in the Eu elections, and then I'll see what they have to offer for the general election next year.

 

So what you are saying is that UKip are not perfect, far from it, but still you are100% behind them in the EU elections. You would fit in very well with the scheme of things in North Korea and many other undemocratic regimes - if that really is your mantra.

 

That signifies "blind obedience" and is hardly a vote for a true democracy.

 

If something is not perfect, then you do not follow it without question do you - really and if you are being honest to yourself?

 

I suggest you let that sink in, think about it [if you can] sleep on it and maybe - just maybe wake up on Sunday morning and realise that you are actually - just wait for it - plain wrong.

 

And by the way, I am not "scared" or "afraid" of UKiP as you and many of your fellow travellers claim that all of us, who query Farage, are - why should we be? He is a clown pretending to be a politician with just one issue under his belt, or is it that UKip and their fellow travellers have an agenda that we should be afraid of? If so, them maybe we - as the electorate - should be told?

 

No doubt you will come with some sort of answer - you predictably always do - but it will be - as ever - pure rubbish. I will leave it at that.

WC you are scared of UKIP but dont worry they have to get voted in unlike this man below and many others that decide what we can and cannot do in this country of ours.

[Gimlet]

 

 

The EU is not the world's largest economy by a long way. I think you'll find it is according to most international organisations - only the IMF has it second to the USA. And it's share of world trade is declining steadily and has been for years. Britain enjoys no trade advantage by being part of the EU It clearly does have trade advantages as it also does with commonweath countries and any other country that has a trade agreement with the UK. We are forbidden under the terms of our membership from negotiating bilateral trade agreements with other nations outside the EU I'm interested in that, I was not aware of any obstruction in that respect as we have bilateral trade agreements with many countries outside the EU and we continue to seek more out. Every trade arrangement we have with every country in the world with whom we do business is overseen by the EU and controlled to suit the needs of the EU in its pursuit of statehood, not the needs of Britain Again I don't think that is strictly true, we have to abide by certain rules set by the EU and the WTO but it is not controlled by Europe and the UK can benefit from any agreement it can make within that framework.

I'd welcome an honest debate, but we can't have one if one side is starting on the false premise that the EU is a free trade bloc that merely needs reforming to work properly. The EU cannot be reformed. It is not and never was a trading bloc. It has not got out of hand or lost its way, this is how it was supposed to be. But this is not set in stone and as a nation we have some sway - what we don't have is the discussion or chance to voice our opinion to steer the politicians in the direction we want, whatever that may be.

 

 

 

Have a read:

 

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/96/attachments/original/1396261328/EFd_doc_2.0.pdf?139626132

[FalconFN]

 

 

Have a read:

 

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/96/attachments/original/1396261328/EFd_doc_2.0.pdf?139626132

Gimlet, you are an intelligent person that has clearly thought out ideas and strong beliefs but surely you can't seriously think that using UKIP produced literature to bolster your argument makes them more valid. I could, if I could bring myself to read through it, produce lots of Lib Dem guff to refute the UKIP guff, but both are still guff.

 

I did look at the first few lines and it just confirmed that UKIP present politically motivated half truths as fact without proper investigation. They present the fact that the EU's share of global GDP has fallen from 30% to 20% in the last 30 odd Years as evidence that the EU's economy is floundering whereas in reality it is the massive rise in the fortunes of the BRIC economies which has had the major effect - they also conviniently omit the fact that the EU is the largest economy on the planet.

[poontang]

This is being nothing short of ridiculous

 

 

 

So what you are saying is that UKip are not perfect, far from it, but still you are100% behind them in the EU elections. You would fit in very well with the scheme of things in North Korea and many other undemocratic regimes - if that really is your mantra.

 

That signifies "blind obedience" and is hardly a vote for a true democracy.

 

If something is not perfect, then you do not follow it without question do you - really and if you are being honest to yourself?

 

I suggest you let that sink in, think about it [if you can] sleep on it and maybe - just maybe wake up on Sunday morning and realise that you are actually - just wait for it - plain wrong.

 

And by the way, I am not "scared" or "afraid" of UKiP as you and many of your fellow travellers claim that all of us, who query Farage, are - why should we be? He is a clown pretending to be a politician with just one issue under his belt, or is it that UKip and their fellow travellers have an agenda that we should be afraid of? If so, them maybe we - as the electorate - should be told?

 

No doubt you will come with some sort of answer - you predictably always do - but it will be - as ever - pure rubbish. I will leave it at that.

 

Yes, I'm 100% behind them in the Eu elections, and no, they're not perfect. Can you name me one party who is? ONE party...can you?

I think the fact that I acknowledge Ukip aren't perfect pretty much scuppers your argument about 'blind obedience'. Surely if I was so blind I wouldn't acknowledge any shortfalls with the party?

You do nothing but denigrate Ukip and it's supporters on here yet keep your own cards close to your chest. Maybe instead of your negative slurs you could enlighten us with some positives from whoever it is you support?

 

The fact that you compare Farage, and by association his supporters, to the North Korean regime shows just how out of touch you are with reality, and your fear, as much as you would deny it, is very real. The personal and vitriolic nature of your post is a dead give away.

 

I'll leave you with one last thing if I may, although you'll probably blame UKIP.

 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/two-racist-attacks-every-day-in-northern-irelands-racehate-crime-surge-30202329.html

[FalconFN]

Is that the correct link?

[poontang]

Is that the correct link?

 

If you mean the last link I posted then Yes, it's the correct one.

[Munzy]

... If something is not perfect, then you do not follow it without question do you...

 

You could easily interpret this as a reason to vote UKIP and put an end to the ongoing spiral of deception served by the same old political parties!

[overandunder2012]

You could easily interpret this as a reason to vote UKIP and put an end to the ongoing spiral of deception served by the same old political parties!

what makes everyone think ukip wont be like the others? all snouts like troughs

Edited April 26, 2014 by overandunder2012

[Munzy]

what makes everyone think ukip wont be like the others? all snouts like troughs

I don't think anyone believes UKIP will be different but there is a chance they will.

[overandunder2012]

I don't think anyone believes UKIP will be different but there is a chance they will.

fair enough fair play to anyone who wants to give it a punt god knows we all agree changes are needed, the euros will be amusing if nothing else as a lot of people will vote ukip in the euro's to poke it into the establishment. its going to be interesting to say the least

[Gimlet]

Gimlet, you are an intelligent person that has clearly thought out ideas and strong beliefs but surely you can't seriously think that using UKIP produced literature to bolster your argument makes them more valid. I could, if I could bring myself to read through it, produce lots of Lib Dem guff to refute the UKIP guff, but both are still guff.

 

I did look at the first few lines and it just confirmed that UKIP present politically motivated half truths as fact without proper investigation. They present the fact that the EU's share of global GDP has fallen from 30% to 20% in the last 30 odd Years as evidence that the EU's economy is floundering whereas in reality it is the massive rise in the fortunes of the BRIC economies which has had the major effect - they also conviniently omit the fact that the EU is the largest economy on the planet.

 

But I can make precisely the same argument against evidence used in support of the EU, and so we get nowhere. You couldn't bring yourself to read it, yet it is guff. Why? Because its from Ukip. Why does that make it guff? Because you say so. This is the puerile level that the debate over the future governance of our country has sunk to. The crucial point that is being overlooked, or perhaps avoided, is that first and foremost this is about democracy. This subject has been debated for decades and the arguments are facile, the rights and wrongs worthless without democratic mandate. It strikes me that Ukip's detractors fear having something forced upon them they do not want (or I would venture, are told they should not want) by some kind of mob rule. But Ukip supporters feel that has already happened. Everything reeks of political choreography. I support Ukip purely because I want a democratic say in my country's future: I oppose the EU for the same reason. So the solution is to test this beyond doubt in an immediate, binding, straightforward, UK only referendum: no tricks, no caveats, no preconditions, no negotiations, no pre-emptive horse trading. A vote with the result acted upon with immediate effect. What is so extremist or deluded about that?

[poontang]

 

The crucial point that is being overlooked, or perhaps avoided, is that first and foremost this is about democracy.

 

Hallelujah!!

 

Everything else is a sideshow.

[Psyxologos]

 

Hallelujah!!

 

Everything else is a sideshow.

 

You cry for democracy and the fact that the EU is ruled by unelected bureaucrats (I am with you on that, I do not agree with this either) but yet your avatar is that of a lady who 'rules Britannia' on the merit of her bloodline. Nice!