OJW Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 On Monday I think I'm going to take my Caesar Guerini Maxum in to have a London Gun oil finish put on it. Apparently it takes up to 6 weeks. Can anyone tell me what they would normally expect to pay for this type of work? Guerinis come with a varnish finish, that seems to mark rather easily and is a bit on the light side for me (or at least mine is). I would like to try and bring the wood out more. I was told that a London finish was the way to go. I was wondering if anyone has any "before and after" pictures regarding a London finish? As I haven't been able to find any really helpful comparisons on google. Thank you, I will post before and after photos of my own when its all done, incase anyone is interested. OJW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 They might have the wood there for 6 weeks but they only spend a few minutes every couple of days working on it, so I wouldn't be willing to pay more than £100, even for a true 'London' finish, but I wouldn't spend a penny without seeing some examples of their work. Any of the 'Best Gun' makers will have pictures on their sites showing the finished guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted May 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 They said when I am there they can show me some of their work, problem is the gunsmiths is 1.20 mins away and by the time I'm in there I'm committed really.They said I could choose a stain. Like that I could get it done in a more red colour, no idea what to choose. What do you mean by "a true London finish", are there fake ones? The gunsmith I am taking to is very reputable, I think they won gunsmith of the year award last year or the year before. Or so they say, I have no reason to doubt them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I know lots charge £300 plus for a London hand rubbed finish, some will just do a Tru oil and charge for London. I do the same for private as I do the gun trade at £120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 It's not so much that there are fake London finishes, rather that it's a general term for a well executed hand rubbed oil finish. There's a certain (largely contrived) mystique about it all, especially the bulldust about "secret recipe" oil, but it's really a very simple process using readily available materials. I'm not sure what Guerini uses but I'd guess it's a Tru-Oil type product which in fact isn't true oil, rather it's a mixture of oil, varnish and drying agents producing an oil-like finish very quickly. Despite being fake oil, these finishes can be a reasonable compromise between poly varnish and oil and look good when new, but they tend to get tired looking fairly quickly, whereas a proper oil finish can be refreshed very easily (if needed) once or twice a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted May 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 From the Guerini USA website: (nothing on UK, as I guess they are imported) What kind of finish is on Caesar Guerini stocks? We only use a linseed oil bases finish on our stocks. A true oil finish brings out the beauty of the wood. Sorry to sound so Naive but could you interpret that for me Westward? Is that the cheap stuff? "Fake" kinda stuff? And in your opinion, how much would the wood be enhanced by having it re-finished with a London oil finish? Welshwarrior, the RRP is £250 + VAT but they are charging me £200 because I bought the gun from them initially. I can PM you the name of the gunsmith if you think theres a chance they might be a faker so to speak. Thanks guys , very helpful stuff. I would have gone in there totally blind otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Drop me a PM with who it is I'll let you know if here anything about them either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 There are a few on the forum do this work, sage100/Dennis at UK gun repairs, very good at it.and straightshooter1/sacha do a fair few. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted May 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Thanks Figgy, its nothing personal to individuals on the forum that I'm sure do fantastic work, probably more so because they are passionate about it rather than just doing it for cash. But I would prefer to use a gunsmith as I know the gun will be safe and insured while its with them, and also that if something goes wrong its easier to hold them to account. I realise its unlikely anything would go wrong, but its just to be on the safe side. Also having any extra work done to it by the same people I bought it from may work in my favour if I ever come to sell it. At the moment, I just don't like the finish, but can see the wood is really nice; and purely for my own pleasure would like to get the wood work brought out better. I just don't know much about finishes and types of stain so am hoping to have a bit more knowledge before I take it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p@cman Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 On 10/05/2014 at 21:40, figgy said: There are a few on the forum do this work, sage100/Dennis at UK gun repairs, very good at it.and straightshooter1/sacha do a fair few. Figgy I can personally vouch for the quality of work that straightshooter1/sacha produces. He repaired and refinished a stock on one of my guns and the result was nothing short of stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I had mine done with Dennis at uk gun repairs, haven't got any before pictures as the stock was custom fit made to me. Here's Dennis doing his stuff with my stock, it was a long story how I got it made but well worth the wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted May 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) Willpoon that is stunning!!! What type of wood is it? * And did you ask for a particular colour oil / stain? I've been quoted £200, does that seem like a reasonable ball park figure? Thanks * Edit: I think Guerinis are made from English Walnut grown in Turkey. Edited May 10, 2014 by OJW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p@cman Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Nice job Willpoon, that looks very nice indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 To cut a long story short I drove for over 5hrs so Dennis could fit a nill griffe evo stock on my Perazzi mx2000s . It didn't fit because my p gun wasn't a drop out trigger gun. So dennis sourced a piece of old stock from his vast supply and made a custom stock for me. It's walnut I presume and I let him do his stuff so to speak . He let me have a look in his gun room with work that's he's done, very draw dropping stuff It very hard wearing as I've had dings and scratches on it, but all I do is steam it out with an iron and a damp cloth. It's used in the rain as well with no marks on the oiled finish. I do some times rub some wax on the wood when I feel the need to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 OJW , the cost of my stock and hand finish as you can imagine was £££££ but well worth it. For £200 you've been quoted it seems very good. Like Figgy said there's some very good woodworker on this forum. I've been told welshwarrior ihttp://dmshooting.co.uk/home.html s pretty damn good as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 On 10/05/2014 at 19:10, OJW said: From the Guerini USA website: (nothing on UK, as I guess they are imported) What kind of finish is on Caesar Guerini stocks? We only use a linseed oil bases finish on our stocks. A true oil finish brings out the beauty of the wood. Sorry to sound so Naive but could you interpret that for me Westward? Is that the cheap stuff? "Fake" kinda stuff? TruOil and similar products aren't exactly fake perhaps faux is better term because they're nicer than polyurethane but not as nice or durable as a pukka oil finish. And yes, they most certainly do use linseed oil as the base, as do most of the Grandad's secret recipe oils, but as I said the linseed is cut with dryers to accelerate the curing time and have spar varnish added so that they will be finished and weatherproof with only 2 or 3 coats. The point of such products is they deliver an acceptable looking finish starting from bare wood to final QA inspection in a matter of hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Tru oil has just enough BLO into to meet the term oil but it's mixed with spar varnish to make a fast drying easy to use product but it won't stand up to use like an hand rubbed oil finish it also can't be used on wood with oil contamination, where it will break down very quickly. If someone can do you a hand rubbed oil finish in under 4 weeks it not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Why not do the stock yourself, I did three of my own after some good advice and a little finishing oil from Dennis. More then pleased with the finish I got. You can then decide how dark you want to stain it before the oil finish starts. I prefer the wood as natural in colour as possible, the dark lines and fiddleback in my stocks stand right out in the daylight now, much better than the factory finish. I done the three stocks to different amounts of finish. My sons old AYA was done to a nice sheen, my original Gold E stock was done to a nice shine and finally the stock I bought for the Gold E was done to the point of looking like a top London gun, it took me months to do as it needs to harden before giving it a final buffing to a deep deep shine. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 When you chaps have done your own stocks, how did you deal with the checkering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't attempt it myself figgy, if it was a gun I bought for a project then yea but its not something I want to experiment on. Glad it worked for you, but I'm not very good with that sort of thing. No experience what so ever. Edited May 11, 2014 by OJW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev56 Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Interesting posts on stock oil. I often hear about different finishes and discussions on different products, my question is if "true oil" isn't, what oil is the real m'coy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Commercially bought Napier London Stock Oil Trade Secret Stock oil Never tried but heard Parker Hale is ok. Home made: not telling you my blend but BLO RLO Dragons blood and bees wax. I'm thinking about selling bottles of mine but not sure if it would be worth it interest wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev56 Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) On 12/05/2014 at 07:52, welshwarrior said: Commercially bought Napier London Stock Oil Trade Secret Stock oil Never tried but heard Parker Hale is ok. Home made: not telling you my blend but BLO RLO Dragons blood and bees wax. I'm thinking about selling bottles of mine but not sure if it would be worth it interest wise. Send me a gallon sample and i'll let you know ps. ok i'll go down the commercially bought route, can you tell me out of those which one will give a not too shiny/ gloss finish. Edited May 12, 2014 by kev56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 There have been endless discussions on various American forums over which oil is best between BLO, tung, pure linseed and teak oils as well as Danish oil etc. Each has it's supporters and all do a decent job, but unadulterated oil will take an increasing amount of curing time between applications. My favourite is pure teak oil but as I can no longer find it I use artists grade, part polymerized linseed oil from the local art shop. It cures much quicker than pure linseed or BLO and is also colourless. As for the secret ingredient I can only say the internet is your friend. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 3 hour round trip, but my guns now at the gunsmiths. Really hope to see a big difference from the shiny finish Guerini put on them all. Will post pictures in 6 weeks! Thank you for all the advice. I felt like I knew what I was talking about when I took it in and was able to ask all the right questions. I'm confident they know exactly what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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