FAO BASC - Medical reports

[bostonmick]

so in the end we are all left to wonder did the phone conversation ever take place or did scully have a luther king moment. (I had a dream) atb peeps

[Kes]

so in the end we are all left to wonder did the phone conversation ever take place or did scully have a luther king moment. (I had a dream) atb peeps

You dont even have to try - absolutely my last !

[grrclark]

so in the end we are all left to wonder did the phone conversation ever take place or did scully have a luther king moment. (I had a dream) atb peeps

 

That did make me giggle, i shall remember the 'luther king moment'

[webber]

You dont even have to try - absolutely my last !

Thank goodness.

 

webber

[Scully]

I am saying that no one recalls the exact detail of the conversation, you will not tell me who you spoke to, when or even the department they are from, if you will not help me than I cant help you its as simple as that.

I'm sorry David, but I think you misunderstand. I haven't been asking for 'help' at any time during this thread . My contribution to this thread is based on why our shooting organisations can't/wont do anything to resolve this issue and the outlook for the future as far as this issue goes, based on a telephone conversation I had with a senior BASC representative. It wasn't a cry for help so much as a description of my situation being one of constant frustrated resignation as to our fate, and even more so since the conversation. Frustration at the apathy of most UK shooters ( not all; there are still more than a few with balls out there) and the lack of clout our organisations have. It wont stop me being a pain in the **** though, with or without representation.

[Scully]

so in the end we are all left to wonder did the phone conversation ever take place or did scully have a luther king moment. (I had a dream) atb peeps

Do you mean 'I have a dream' mick?

[David BASC]

Scully,

you asked me to post on here my findings after speaking to the member of staff you say you spoke to, but you have refused to help me find out who you spoke to, when, or in which department and in what context, and what they said. But still you refer yet again to the conversation to try and support your case...

 

I have repeatedly said what BASC are doing on a national and local level to resolve this issue but evidently my posts have been constantly ignored by some.

 

So let me reiterate:

We have been fighting compulsory medical tests for over 5 years

We remain fully opposed to compulsory medical checks

We remain in dialogue with the Home office and ACPO - no one else is as far as I know - to get this sorted

We will fight any attempt on a local level to try and instigate compulsory medical checks, but need the help of shooters to tell us where this may be happening so we can act

 

David

[bostonmick]

Do you mean 'I have a dream' mick?

we all have dreams scully.free sgc/fac certificates guns on buy one get one free.tax payer subsidised ammo.but the only sure thing is death and taxes.its good to laugh and there is always one to be had here.atvb

[Scully]

Scully,

you asked me to post on here my findings after speaking to the member of staff you say you spoke to, ​Ah, with your there; my mistake. Sorry for the confusion but I wasn't asking for 'help'; I thought it would be interesting to find out what the response was. it was, but I wasn't expecting anyone to say they couldn't recall the conversation.

but you have refused to help me find out who you spoke to, Correct. when, or in which department Correct and in what context, Incorrect and what they said. Incorrect But still you refer yet again to the conversation to try and support your case...With all respect I don't need to 'try' and support my case.

 

I have repeatedly said what BASC are doing on a national and local level to resolve this issue but evidently my posts have been constantly ignored by some. I don't recall denying what BASC are doing, only their ability to resolve the issue. Like I've already said; it's not just BASC.

 

So let me reiterate:

We have been fighting compulsory medical tests for over 5 years Again, I'm assuming you mean a GP's 'report' rather than a test. 5 Years? Really? And it's still unresolved?

We remain fully opposed to compulsory medical checks Again, I'm assuming you mean a GP's 'report' . I remain fully opposed also, but time will tell.

We remain in dialogue with the Home office and ACPO - Good no one else is as far as I know Why not? - to get this sorted But isn't the dialogue actually not to stop this practise, but rather to resolve the issue of who pays for the GP's report? The applicant or the police?

We will fight any attempt on a local level to try and instigate compulsory medical checks, but need the help of shooters to tell us where this may be happening so we can act Your repeated use of the phrase 'medical checks' makes me wonder if you do in fact mean a GP's report or indeed a 'medical' . Something you want to tell us? Only joking.

 

David

[David BASC]

Yes GP report, apologies for saying medical checks

Yes, its been at least 5 years that we have been stopping the police insisting on the applicant paying for reports as a matter of course / blanket policy

Yes, preventing this has resolved the issue thus far BUT as we know since the new HO guidance has come out some forces are now trying it on, and many thanks to the three of you who have been in touch giving me details of what the police are doing in your areas.

Cant speak for other organisations , or what they are doing on a national level, but on the whole seems quiet...I stand to be corrected of course

Yes the key issue of the dialogue is if the police want the report from the GP, that's their choice, so they should pay

 

Please understand I am taking this matter very seriously indeed, not just for the sake of the whole shooting community, but on a personal note too, as since my last renewal I have been diagnosed with a medical condition that I will need to declare and consequently the police may well want a report from my GP...

 

David

[bedwards1966]

And you should win top prize for not listening to my answers!

 

I will say again as you evidently have missed most of what I have posted:

 

PLEASE tell we which authorities are doing this so we can investigate, I need to see the additional paperwork that's being sent and what's being asked. Once we have that information we can take action.

 

Let me make it very clear for you as evidently you don't understand, that without this evidence we cannot take further action .

 

Can you please confirm that you understand what I have just posted?

 

David, I have no difficulty in reading/listening to what little you actually say among the lengthy replies, nor do I have any difficulty in understanding any of it.

 

One force at a time. Durham are sending out a form for applicants to fill out regarding their medical conditions. You are aware of this, what are you doing about it?

[bedwards1966]

Another question if I may - when did the efforts of BASC stop Durham from making an actual demand for medical reports, altering it to a mere 'request'?

[p@cman]

 

Maybe certain posters have a good reason to.......

 

BJ, believe me, if I thought that they had good cause... but unless my grasp of the English language has slipped, David BASC has been very clear and accurate in his responses to the questions & points.

 

It sounds to me very much like axe grinding in my opinion.

[David BASC]

A few months ago, after two senior staff from BASC had a face to face meeting with the Constabulary, this resulted in the wording of the accompanying letter changing to make it clear it was voluntary. We also got an assurance of the senior officer in charge that if we found any of his officers overstepping the mark and suggesting that not filling in the form would delay or stop the application that we should let him know so he could make sure that the application was not stopped or delayed and the person involved would be spoken to.

 

I hope that answers your question.

 

David

[Scully]

Yes GP report, apologies for saying medical checks

Yes, its been at least 5 years that we have been stopping the police insisting on the applicant paying for reports as a matter of course / blanket policy

Yes, preventing this has resolved the issue thus far BUT as we know since the new HO guidance has come out some forces are now trying it on, and many thanks to the three of you who have been in touch giving me details of what the police are doing in your areas.

Cant speak for other organisations , or what they are doing on a national level, but on the whole seems quiet...I stand to be corrected of course

Yes the key issue of the dialogue is if the police want the report from the GP, that's their choice, so they should pay

 

Please understand I am taking this matter very seriously indeed, not just for the sake of the whole shooting community, but on a personal note too, as since my last renewal I have been diagnosed with a medical condition that I will need to declare and consequently the police may well want a report from my GP...

 

David

As someone who regards themselves as being pretty up to date with the politics of shooting, I find it hard to believe I haven't heard of this matter of the police insisting the applicant pays for the GP's report (blanket or otherwise) until Durham began their current policy following their notorious actions with Atherton, especially as I am included amongst those who are subjected to my GP being contacted by licensing. Mad as a loooooon!

[David BASC]

you can get tablets for that

[Luckyshot]

A few months ago, after two senior staff from BASC had a face to face meeting with the Constabulary, this resulted in the wording of the accompanying letter changing to make it clear it was voluntary. We also got an assurance of the senior officer in charge that if we found any of his officers overstepping the mark and suggesting that not filling in the form would delay or stop the application that we should let him know so he could make sure that the application was not stopped or delayed and the person involved would be spoken to.

 

I hope that answers your question.

 

David

 

Really ?

 

I had my renewal forms here in October last year and the medical form issued by Durham stated that is was a voluntary form, yes they wanted it filling in but once you spoke to them they clearly stated that is was voluntary and you didn't have to take part as I didn't.

[bedwards1966]

A few months ago, after two senior staff from BASC had a face to face meeting with the Constabulary, this resulted in the wording of the accompanying letter changing to make it clear it was voluntary. We also got an assurance of the senior officer in charge that if we found any of his officers overstepping the mark and suggesting that not filling in the form would delay or stop the application that we should let him know so he could make sure that the application was not stopped or delayed and the person involved would be spoken to.

 

I hope that answers your question.

 

David

 

That has answered one of the questions, thank you.

But what about the question I asked in the post before that, post 366 - http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/283136-fao-basc-medical-reports/page-17?do=findComment&comment=2544137 ?

 

Also, you've 'been fighting compulsory medical tests for over 5 years' - but as it was Durham who initiated all this why did it take until only a few months ago (clearly over 4 years, according to your posts) before BASC actually stopped them from making unlawful demands?

Edited May 29, 2014 by bedwards1966

[Kes]

Wouldnt it be nice if we knew the whole story, Sorry Webber - another comment, I am sure you wont mind.

[David BASC]

Yeah really - you should have seen the old forms - I will get you the date of the meeting if you want?

 

Betwards - Durham initiated their first pilot last year...again if you want I will see if I can find out when they started their first pilot. I will look at that link in a mo

[p@cman]

Wouldnt it be nice if we knew the whole story

 

[David BASC]

Yes we are aware that Durham are sending out extra forms, as I have said before this is a voluntary pilot scheme.

 

And before you ask there is nothing in law to stop them from sending our forms that are voluntary to complete, only the official application / renewal forms need to be completed and sent back. And failing to send back voluntary forms should not delay or prevent you application from being processed, and as I have said and member who has been told differently by their licencing authority should let me / BASC know as soon as possible so we can get onto it.

 

David

[Kes]

Yes we are aware that Durham are sending out extra forms, as I have said before this is a voluntary pilot scheme.

 

And before you ask there is nothing in law to stop them from sending our forms that are voluntary to complete, only the official application / renewal forms need to be completed and sent back. And failing to send back voluntary forms should not delay or prevent you application from being processed, and as I have said and member who has been told differently by their licencing authority should let me / BASC know as soon as possible so we can get onto it.

 

David

If Durham sent this note (above) attached to the the 'voluntary' forms as an N.B. at the bottom of the request, explaining it was entirely voluntary and would not affect their application in any way, how many would be returned completed, no-one pays £30 -£125 for no real need?

By failing to mention its voluntary, how many first timers will do this without need, or justification, it they were fully aware of the legislative requirements? I suggest not many.

Also it seems obvious that if it has been going on for 5 years BASC's approach isnt yeilding results - I would publish the history in the BASC magazine. Perhaps this isnt a glorious success or maybe the police would have their feathers ruffled. I do hope all new BASC members get a member briefing on such issues rather than 'come across them' later in their shooting life, blissfully unaware.

 

Oh

"And before you ask there is nothing in law to stop them from sending out forms that are voluntary to complete," I would suggest there is, the 'Voluntary scheme' is apparently designed to give the impression that the request is a requirement, that alone, subject to judicial review would require it to be clarified explicitly that the scheme is voluntary etc etc which begs the question, why do it if no-one responds. Has anyone got a copy of the form and details of the advice on filling it in for Durham ? It would help clarify a number of issues.

[evo]

why do I get the feeling that I have read the same thing over and over again

 

the only thing that I can see regards this thread is that a few people certainly don't like BASC, in my eyes David answered the questions clearly 17 pages ago , I,ve never read a more clear answer from him,

 

but still the same questions are being fired at him,,,

 

I wonder how many who have asked the questions are actually BASC members or as it has been said "have an axe to grind"

 

certainly not stopped me from being a member ,

 

very strange how certain people are hell bent on having a go at BASC ,

 

sorry if I have offended anyone as that is not my intention , it just seems I have read the same page 18 times,

 

welsh1 NO SUGAR on its way

 

atb Evo

[David BASC]

Kes,

 

you totally misunderstand what's been happening, I did not say that Durham have been sending out these forms for the last 5 years, they have not. They started running their fist pilot when the new HO guidance came out.

 

The latest letters do state that this is a pilot and at the bottom carry a clear statement that the additional form is voluntary as I have said before.