how short is too short (.22lr barrel)

[Paul223]

Try taking the action back out of the stock and reinstalling, just in case there's a foreign object in there causing tension

[kent]

OK point taken but tell me what is wrong with the crown? (other than "it looks sh1 t")

 

because as it stands I can't fault it

it is an identical crown in size and shape to my .222, also done by the same person, who also did my .243 and .300Win Mag.

Its not some micky mouse job by someone with a new hobby lathe

 

 

I agree that this is the only change of any significance (short of any process that removes swarf and lubricant from the process) and other than the shortening, but without an obvious issue just saying "its the crown" doesn't help me

 

if it was off centre

not perpendicular,

jagged

used a centre steady and screwed up the rifling...then yes I would be right there saying to the person who did it, "please fix this"

 

 

the rifling is crisp

all lands end uniformly

the bore is central to the threads (measured)

the thread cut is square, (measured with a square)

Its rebated and their is no shadow of the mod in the bore when it is fitted

no baffles are touched in the mod by any shots

 

so what exactly am I supposed to say to the smith who did it?

 

Listen,i have not been in a machine shop for many years but its obvious its never been your trade. Just take the advice its something to do with what's been done! None of the faults you describe as being checked off can be done at home, other than visual inspection of the crown (which should be done under magnification). No matter how good your guy is we all make mistakes get it back to him, if it was me I should want it back to check even if I thought it was nothing I had done.

 

There is the outside chance the barrel has been correctly cut but it has been done at a slack spot in the bore, rare but possible and that too can be fixed, though it takes the machinist to do it not a forum member from your descriptions of what you think it isnt

[Bewsher500]

That's good advice

You're right I'm no machinist but I have enough basic engineering knowledge and a few precision tools to be dangerous or screw things up

 

I ran the barrel through a Vee Block and Dial gauged muzzle, the thread OD and the crown OD for concentricity to the bore

Similarly with the crown edge itself to check it is perpendicular to the bore.

 

The reason I am questioning it is I can't measure or see any imperfections or obvious issues unless it is something I don't know what to look for

 

If I do take it back and can't sort it I really need more to go back with than just "it doesn't work, it must be your fault"

[kent]

Have you fallen out with the guy or something? Just speak to him. Your right I shouldn't try and measure such things in v blocks on a proper inspection table as your always going to get errors. The quick and easy route is to call it a bad one and cut it again

[turbo33]

My referenced to your attitude, was because you have a moderator on your firearms certificate, doesn't mean everything, it doesn't make it a moderator suitable for powder burning firearms. I have a moderator for my Daystate on my cert, and that doesn't make it suitable for a 22lr .Also, things do change. The inside of a firearms dedicated moderator is of a solid construction. The HW one is not, so at some point, you will get an effect on pressure. How significant, I'm not sure. However, I do know that if a moderator is not concentric with the bore, even if the round isn't clipping, the pressure variation has an effect on the round, similar to wind.

 

So, lets assume your mod is fine, and you will only eliminate that by trying another and getting exactly the same results, and that you haven't changed anything else, magazines, rammed a scaffold pipe up the breach to clean it.

 

THEN THE ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED IS THE MACHINING. There is where the problem lies. As for what to say to your gunsmith? I would just politely say, please could you check it over as it won't group now. If he is worth his salt, he will use all the instruments and knowledge at his disposal, and will know exactly what the problem is. Or maybe he out sourced it to a machine shop that isn't experienced in the sensitive nature of rifle bores. Reference Charlie T's comment on choke ( good reply ) I would have thought if an experienced gunsmith did actually do this, he would be aware of it and advise you accordingly before starting work.

Edited June 12, 2014 by turbo33

[welshwarrior]

You need to take advice here.

 

The stock has not change and has been checked to insure it has been refitted correctly.

 

The scopes been remounted and is know to be good.

 

You've tried different ammo

 

The rifle still won't group the only other thing it could be is the new crown get the smith to check his work we all make mistakes.

[Bewsher500]

CRISIS AVERTED!!

and on a slightly different note...mild embarrassment on my part for not considering this potential issue first!

so the barrel was fully cleaned,
all scope mounts and barrel bolt removed, refitted, torqued and checked
I swapped mods to a mates instead of shooting without one...

and crucially.....swapped scope!! (thank you Stuart!)

One of Nikko Stirling's finest 6x42's

Its already had 20 odd through it since cleaning, plus a few shots to walk it onto the target to zero the test scope
Once zeroed and shooting into the sticker I swapped back to my Weihrauch mod

Shot 5 groups with 4 different kinds of ammo
3 of the end of a Win Sub box
5 more Win Subs into the same target from a new box and then RWS, ELey and finally CCI

Conclusion: I shouldn't look for complex problems before considering the simple ones regardless of how unlikely!

 

I have never had a scope just fail without a knock or recoil event and never even thought to swap it just in case, it has been bang on since I got it 4+ years ago

The dead scope was a decent quality Japanese glass Tasco

Coincidence in the timing of the failure with the barrel work had me thinking of everything else BUT the scope!

with the exception of one pulled shot and the more open group on the CCI's I would be happy with any of the other brands and we are back in business!

C2C 5 shot groups-

RWS - 14mm
Win Subs - 16mm
Eley - 21mm
CCI - 33mm

Thank you for all your replies, certainly got me thinking of the variables involved.

Thankfully I do not have to find another gunsmith!!

[turbo33]

Good news Strange how your scope was ok with the.17 and not with the 22, but it doesn't matter, looks like you've nailed it

I did a bit of testing yesterday with my 22lr set up on Winnies. At 100yds, the RWS were the best, closely followed by Eley and CCI Seg, with Winnies last. The segs were surprisingly good. Slight drop on the RWS and Eley, about an 1 1/2 and the segs slightly high and right. But I do like the idea of the segmenting rounds for terminal effect and potential ricochet issues, so may well end up sticking with those.

Anyway, a good day

Edited June 12, 2014 by turbo33

[Berettacocker]

Glad your all sorted now!

[Old farrier]

Hi

Can you tell us was the work done by a gunsmith or a engineer friend ?

 

Can you also look at your moderator and tell us iif it has proof marks on it ?

 

It seems the only thing that has changed is the crown and barrel length

Oh and the amount of rifeling that is available to put a spin on the bullet and stabilise it is a lot shorter

You can't alter that now so I'm afraid your options are a bit limited

All the best

Of

 

Please ignore as you have solved the problem

Posts crossed

Edited June 12, 2014 by Old farrier

[Bewsher500]

on stripping the scope I have discovered a very faint rattle under one of the turrets

Assuming the spring that holds the mechanism under tension/compression

 

fubar'd whatever is wrong with it. Anyone need any Tasco spares!!?!?

[dadioles]

You did not say what distance you were shooting at but the RWS seemed to be significantly better than the others.

[Bewsher500]

about 40-45yds in this case

shame as I have one box left and can;t get them round here!

 

still, WinSubs will do the trick just fine

the bottom left target is actually two groups

one of three to the left and one of five to the right/centre of the sticker

[dadioles]

40-50 yards is not far enough to show a difference in ammunition types. Sorry, you are deluding yourself .

 

Try the same test, 5 shots of each bullet type at 75 yards . That will help sort out what suits your gun.

[kent]

40-50 yards is not far enough to show a difference in ammunition types. Sorry, you are deluding yourself .

 

Try the same test, 5 shots of each bullet type at 75 yards . That will help sort out what suits your gun.

 

Yep I should agree with that, it will only really show the poorest rubbish stuff up. Test all my ammo for the .22 at 100 yards these days, 50 yard range is just for zeroing. Its surprising just how much a gap opens up between ammo at 100

[Bewsher500]

40-50 yds was all the range I had on the day

As for deluding myself I actually couldn't give a toss which one appeared to work better as I cant get half of the ones I tried round here and have never had a problem with win subs out to 120yds

 

main reason I used them was I had some odds and **** lying around

literally had five or six of each left

on the basis that the CCI are chamber fussy and **** at 40yds I dread to think what they will be like at 100!

 

have swapped the scope to one of mine so will be zeroing again sometime soon

will see how they group at 75 and 100yds though

[macfarlane]

Lol hi Edd youve changed the scope again let me know when you fancy zeroing it ive 100 +yards down at the chicken farm you can go to.stuart