kent Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 If it's been left to the point they have nested, what happens to the 'baby goslings' when 'scare rockets' are deployed? It may be morally wrong in the eyes of many, but as I've said, if there is money to be made then legally there is nothing to stop anyone. My reasoning is that if it's legal then the shooters can't be blamed for exploiting monetary gain simply because others morals are offended. Rather than blame shooters perhaps those opposed should blame those responsible for the legislation and do their utmost to have it changed. We're a great nation (and shooters no less so) for doing a lot of complaining about aspects of our lives which we're unhappy about, but then doing nothing about it. The Goslings are not at the feeding site, the rockets scare the parent birds off were they are not welcome without killing the adults and leaving the golings to perish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 but why do people feel so much more for goslings and breeding geese . If you do not know the answer to that question then you will never be a wildfowler. You make me feel less alone but yet more remote from the "shooter of today" I will continue to use that phrase because it best sums up the mess we are in. It has nothing to do with age or when a guy took up the sport, just general attitude. Not just within wildfowling but all areas stalking the lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I am a wildfowler and have never shot anything out of season. Im just saying that if they are causing somone trouble financially why should they be any different to foxes rabbits and pigeons. They are on the GL for a reason . I'm sure if anything was causing you a great financial loss you'd want it sorted ASAP . You should read NE consultations, reasons are mostly political it seems and stated as undemocratic by NE themselves. Of course Foxes and rabbits are nothing to do with GL in the slightest. Pigeon mature to breed the following summer - geese do not! Pigeons can raise numerous broods per season - Geese have but one go (once they eventually reach maturity). Pigeons are said to be the biggest avian or ground agricultural pest threat in the UK, geese are so way off that list. So might I but the fact remains that they scare very well and if numbers are way too high then it should be done in winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 and how do you no that the geese were using this field or farm or even that area during the season for the op to control them hard to reduce number when there not there during the season that are causing problems now. So no flight lines, no pond near by? Suddenly day in day out plagued by geese. These aren't pigeons, they are birds of habit. Regular disturbance and they will be off. Most problems with geese are places near lakes/ ponds where the numbers build up and they will eat everything in the local vicinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 You make me feel less alone but yet more remote from the "shooter of today" I will continue to use that phrase because it best sums up the mess we are in. It has nothing to do with age or when a guy took up the sport, just general attitude. Not just within wildfowling but all areas stalking the lot That's rubbish, it's the old style of shooters that shot so many that numbers are how they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 That's rubbish, it's the old style of shooters that shot so many that numbers are how they are now. Southeast pete. I'm assuming you're talking about wildlife in general. The issue with Canada's are that there are too many. Not trying to be a smarty pants, just trying to avoid confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 All types yes, I am not against shooting Canada's the year through. They can have a closed season on them where they come from. I read and read about all the bags of hundreds f geese and hares shot back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's that now leves us with vastly reduced numbers. And now "today's shooter" is being villainised? And Canada's young are more important than those of rabbits and pigeons? Why? The first time I shot a pregnant rabbit it put me off for a while, but at the end of the day they breed all year round and your either shootin them or your not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian g Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 So no flight lines, no pond near by? Suddenly day in day out plagued by geese. These aren't pigeons, they are birds of habit. Regular disturbance and they will be off. Most problems with geese are places near lakes/ ponds where the numbers build up and they will eat everything in the local vicinity. it dont mean they will use that area the whole year if there not in that place through the season how can numbers be reduced even if they are in that area they could be on the farm next door were the op dont have permission again how can numbers be reduce the is situations were this needs to be done i drive past a pond next to one of my permissions thought the season there 2/3 maybe the odd occasions few more i know they dont get shot there at all anytime of the year this time of the year i have counted upto 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 It's has nothing to do with ( shooters of today ) if I was asked to deal with geese the way the landowner saw fit that's what I would do. I may suggest other methods but ultimately if he or she wanted some shot to clear them off I would do it . But I must say I would take no pleasure in it what so ever . But as I've already said I've never done it and hope I never get asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 but why do people feel so much more for goslings and breeding geese . If you do not know the answer to that question then you will never be a wildfowler. But not everyone wants to be a wildfowler, nor is interested in wildfowling. This is what some can't seem to understand. Not everyone holds geese in the same regard as wildfowlers, and to some they are merely pests, to be treated as such. It's fine claiming pest controllers shouldn't be included in this debate, but we're talking about pest control, not wildfowling. Pest control is what this thread is about, and yet wild fowlers are up in arms all over it. It's possibly in the 'wildfowling' topic because the OP thought it was the best place to find the answer to his question, but if it were in the vermin control topic would 'fowlers be ok about it ? I doubt it. There is a difference between 'fowling and pest control, those 'fowlers may not be happy about it, but until, or unless they are prepared to do something about it, there will remain those who will shoot geese at every opportunity and make money as a bonus. It has always been thus and has nothing to do with 'fowling, 'the done thing' nor 'the shooter of today'. This holier than thou attitude is both tedious and hypocritical. I don't shoot Jays, which are a damn sight less numerous (as far as I know) than Canadas, but if others choose to shoot them who am I to criticise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Hear hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think its rather more to do with leaving young to fend for themselves when they are unable to. Fox shooters and some rabbit shooters try and avoid leaving young in this way. Pest control may not be a good enough excuse for leaving young to die. Rabbits and pigeons (lately)you would be hard pressed to do this, since they are constantly 'at it'.Dont think it has anything to do with wildfowling in particular I am not a wildfowler and agree that we should shoot them outside the breeding season. This is just my view - you are entitled to yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 But not everyone wants to be a wildfowler, nor is interested in wildfowling. This is what some can't seem to understand. Not everyone holds geese in the same regard as wildfowlers, and to some they are merely pests, to be treated as such. Fully appreciate that Scully. As you say Wildfowlers do hold their quarry in regard. This is the point. Wildfowlers have a very high regard for their quarry and like to treat them with all the respect they deserve. They are not there just to be killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 But not everyone wants to be a wildfowler, nor is interested in wildfowling. This is what some can't seem to understand. Not everyone holds geese in the same regard as wildfowlers, and to some they are merely pests, to be treated as such. Fully appreciate that Scully. As you say Wildfowlers do hold their quarry in regard. This is the point. Wildfowlers have a very high regard for their quarry and like to treat them with all the respect they deserve. They are not there just to be killed. this should go for all quarry not just wildfowl , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) But not everyone wants to be a wildfowler, nor is interested in wildfowling. This is what some can't seem to understand. Not everyone holds geese in the same regard as wildfowlers, and to some they are merely pests, to be treated as such. It's fine claiming pest controllers shouldn't be included in this debate, but we're talking about pest control, not wildfowling. Pest control is what this thread is about, and yet wild fowlers are up in arms all over it. It's possibly in the 'wildfowling' topic because the OP thought it was the best place to find the answer to his question, but if it were in the vermin control topic would 'fowlers be ok about it ? I doubt it. There is a difference between 'fowling and pest control, those 'fowlers may not be happy about it, but until, or unless they are prepared to do something about it, there will remain those who will shoot geese at every opportunity and make money as a bonus. It has always been thus and has nothing to do with 'fowling, 'the done thing' nor 'the shooter of today'. This holier than thou attitude is both tedious and hypocritical. I don't shoot Jays, which are a damn sight less numerous (as far as I know) than Canadas, but if others choose to shoot them who am I to criticise? Very well said ! Edited June 20, 2014 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Are these the same people that come on and post, 'where are all the rabbits/pigeons etc'? Always stick to the seasons or you are just wiping the population out and control isn't eradication. Jays less numerous that Canadas? Never heard such rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 You see there is a great deal of ignorance here. Geese exist in higher numbers than they did as mentioned in the 50, 60's etc, back in those days fowlers from the NW were I live used to travel to Scotland for any fair chance at one. The situation now is we have many tens of thousand around the NW during the winter. Jays less numerous than Canadas? I seriously doubt that one, though I understand in some areas the nature of the ground doesn't suit the jay- likewise some ground is not favoured by the Canada. Frankly one likes wetlands and open ground with good feeding on or close by the other woodland. Sat on a flooded fenland I can understand why a man might feel there are more geese than jays in the UK but frankly he is just a little blinkered in his outlook. All birds are protected, including the Canada. Some might be shot if there is a season that allows for it others might be put on GL were the onus for compliance and frankly ethics is placed upon the shoulders of those doing the killing. When we talk of birds with the reproductive cycle of geese is so far out of whack its untrue. I personally remember shooting a couple of bin liners full of starlings as pests over a two day period when they were listed as a pest bird, how ashamed do I feel now its on the international red list? All I ask you to think on before you go killing without even trailing rockets etc. One day you might feel as I do about the starling I touched on deer earlier, this is because its a classic modern case. The doe / hind cull should be complete by Christmas, the old date was backup for poor weather- the new one reflects the fact that people now pay for does and hind stalking rather than get paid for it. Its not just unpleasant when you have well developed young inside, there is something deeply immoral about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) . Edited June 20, 2014 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Jays less numerous that Canadas? Never heard such rubbish. Fair enough, I don't mind being proved wrong. It was merely off the top of my head as an example of a bird I choose not to shoot. A quick browse on the RSPB site states that for 'UK breeding' there are 170,000 'territories', however that is interpreted as numbers, and for Canadas 'UK breeding' stands at 62,000 pairs, or 124,000 birds. The rest of my post still stands and is completely relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proudly Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 It all comes down to personal choice on the matter. If you value your permission & the landowner requests you do something about it can you argue? We don't all have endless farms to pick & choose what suits us. If my farmer asked me to shoot geese that were damaging his crops/fields I could suggest scare tactics as mentioned...I can guarantee what his reply would be though. I've never shot wildfowl yet, but hope to this winter. I shoot vermin all year round at the farmers request. How many shooters kill foxes without thought of locating cubs & dealing with them humanely? Not many I'd bet.... I remember years ago when the keeper would tell me he had killed vixens on the lamp we'd be crawling through undergrowth looking for cubbing earths to put an end to the litter. Double standards are rife in shooting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 The fact remains Geese scare exceedingly well, better and quicker effect on damage than shooting them in flight in fact- so if your landowner was educated to the fact the goal could be reached quicker! Foxes are far more a survivor than Geese due to their fecundity and litter frequency. Case in point there are many areas were people have trying to reduce them to Nil for centuries and still foxes exist! You wont get this with geese (indeed we Hunted out the native breeding greylag to extinction only 100 years ago) the effect can and likely will be replicated with the Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 You are right Proudly 'Double standards are rife in shooting.... ' But I believe that is the view of the purist. Who of us give a damn about the rats we just put poison down for, not a very nice death. But some of us would go to the extreme to despatch a wounded goose or deer to save it suffering. Who buys their meat and fowl from shops and think of the potentially horrific deaths (and lives) they have suffered. I think most of us do have double standards all be it unknowingly. I guess the only ones that are closest to their true convictions are the vegetarian brigade. But let's not go there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 You are right Proudly 'Double standards are rife in shooting.... ' But I believe that is the view of the purist. Who of us give a damn about the rats we just put poison down for, not a very nice death. But some of us would go to the extreme to despatch a wounded goose or deer to save it suffering. Who buys their meat and fowl from shops and think of the potentially horrific deaths (and lives) they have suffered. I think most of us do have double standards all be it unknowingly. I guess the only ones that are closest to their true convictions are the vegetarian brigade. But let's not go there!! I think you have it there, what the heck is wrong with double triple or quadruple standards. The execution of the act should fit the goal, are we for instance to shoot pheasant on the ground because we say we hunt them for food during rough shooting? What about the easy shots on driven? yet if we are dealing with crows these might both be bonus shots! You make a valid point on rats especially no place for our rat methods in other areas of pest control really and truthfully, we do this because its a no holds barred fight against the scaley tail- a fight we cannot ever claim total victory in I am sure, Take double standards were you will the counter is always going to be means to fix the ends. Like nature its about finding the balance, there is no wildfowler who only looks at geese anyhow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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