00 buckshot for hunting

[MAB1954]

I have loaded and pattern tested a number of buckshot loads and the advice above is spot on.

 

American size '0' Buck [0.320"] will put 8 out of the 10 pellet load into a 10" circle at 25 yards out of full choke barrel. Beyond 25 yards pattern opens up rapidly.

 

English SSG [0.270"] will put 8 or 9 out of the 12 pellet load into a 10" circle at 25 yards, longer ranges as above.

 

English A [0.180"] good pattern on 10" circle out to about 40 yards and plenty of energy. My preferred 40 gram home load for fox.

 

English BB [0.160"] good pattern on 10" circle out to 35 yards.

 

The above is just what I found testing my home loads on paper using a 10" circle which I guess represents a fox's vitals more or less. The '0' Buck I cast myself using a soft lead/lino type mix which makes a harder shot hence the better performance that the soft lead SSG.

[pistolgrip]

good level headed thinking, I can sleep tonight well done, everyone please take note of the ranges mentioned you know it makes sense

[Guest stevo]

good level headed thinking, I can sleep tonight well done, everyone please take note of the ranges mentioned you know it makes sense

 

 

I don't think anyone quote ranges any higher than the ones above . still im happy that your happy .

[pistolgrip]

Well thats me off my high horse you are or course dead right anyone got a stepladder

[cueball]

There is a superb pad on the deer society website outlining the trials they did with shotgun. All the grouping data is shown and it is shocking that it gets the name buckshot as the patterns are horrendous. You can hardly hit a barn door with the stuff. From memory the most successful pattern with an effective kill was AA but don't quote me on that. I will try and find the link and post it, have a read though as it is quite informative.

[cueball]

Found the pdf https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=HMMMVPHQA6-A7QaA8ICIAQ&url=http://www.xn--jegeropplring-cgb.no/Dokumenter%2520og%2520filer%2520Jegeroppl%25C3%25A6ring/Rapport%2520om%2520hagleskyting%2520mot%2520r%25C3%25A5dyr.pdf&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGQ_r0Kowz7Cu0dFHJo1Ho5GZ6rcA&sig2=L97nBdRpUNeVoUBIBaRo3g

[Guest stevo]

Found the pdf https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=HMMMVPHQA6-A7QaA8ICIAQ&url=http://www.xn--jegeropplring-cgb.no/Dokumenter%2520og%2520filer%2520Jegeroppl%25C3%25A6ring/Rapport%2520om%2520hagleskyting%2520mot%2520r%25C3%25A5dyr.pdf&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGQ_r0Kowz7Cu0dFHJo1Ho5GZ6rcA&sig2=L97nBdRpUNeVoUBIBaRo3g

thanks mate

[Guest stevo]

i will post some pictures of some patterns using a shotgun that's fit for purpose ( ie foxing ) well as soon as i get it haha hopefully just week , and i have a feeling that the results may open a few peoples eyes , watch this space .

 

a shotgun will never replace a rifle , however there are lots of times when i would rather use a shotgun , rather risk using the rifle .

 

some of us really do need to know just what the capabilities a shotgun has , when used correctly , with the right gun , right ammo , right chokes , it can be a truly amazing bit of kit .

some say 25 to 30 yrds MAX for fox ? take a seasoned wildfowler for instance , he will use smaller shot than some of the ones listed .and in some instances a lighter load , and have no problem taking geese out to 50 yds ,sometimes in rare occasions a bit further. a goose is a darn sight tougher than i fox i know , AND he's using Steel ( unless he is loaded )

 

i think the key here is IF you don't really know what your doing don't do it ,

Edited September 8, 2014 by stevo

[MAB1954]

The range at which you can hit and kill a fox will depend on many variables including, but not limited to, gun, choke, cartridge and you. Therefore unless you pattern the load/choke combination at various ranges but say 25 - 50 yards you will not know the limitations of the gun/choke/cartridge/yourself plus the result has to be repeatable not a single one off.

 

What I do with my home loads is use a 10" circle on a 48" square sheet and start at 25 yard with 1/4 choke and I'm looking for a minimum of 12 pellets, size English BB - AAA in the 10" circle. I increase the range and when pattern opens up I fit a tighter choke thus I know the limitations of all the variables. All I have to do then is hit a moving target.

 

For fox I normally use 1/4 & Full chokes and take shots as close as I can, just what I do others may be happy doing it different.

[Guest stevo]

The range at which you can hit and kill a fox will depend on many variables including, but not limited to, gun, choke, cartridge and you. Therefore unless you pattern the load/choke combination at various ranges but say 25 - 50 yards you will not know the limitations of the gun/choke/cartridge/yourself plus the result has to be repeatable not a single one off.

 

What I do with my home loads is use a 10" circle on a 48" square sheet and start at 25 yard with 1/4 choke and I'm looking for a minimum of 12 pellets, size English BB - AAA in the 10" circle. I increase the range and when pattern opens up I fit a tighter choke thus I know the limitations of all the variables. All I have to do then is hit a moving target.

 

For fox I normally use 1/4 & Full chokes and take shots as close as I can, just what I do others may be happy doing it different.

I too use a similar method . until last year I used a Beretta xtreama 2 with 3.5" chamber , a Rhino extra full extended Turkey choke and 2 and a 1/4 Oz ( 64 gram Buffered shot ( if I can get them #1or #2 are my chosen favourite or Remington BB's , and at 40 yrds have a claimed 13 ft lbs each pellet . like you I also pattern at 40 yrds and 50 yrds too aiming at a 10" circle , at 40 yrds I would get a 70 % pattern , so you do the maths , at 50 yrds I would get a 60% pattern , more than enough to sort out a fox !

 

with luck I should be picking up my new beretta A300 xtreama , 3.5" , however I will be using a pattern master " code black Goose" this is buy all accounts one of the tightest goose chokes on the market , I have been told by manufacturers that using the above size loads I can expect 75% pattern in 10 " at 50 yrds , ( but I will wait to see it for my own eyes first ) .

 

like I said the shotgun will never replace the rifle , but I will always make every effort to make my kit fit for purpose , I would never expect the same results from my pigeon / decoying O/U with standard chokes , in the same way I wouldn't expect my ( for the want of a better word ) fox shotgun , for a day over decoys .

I have used rifles for yrs on foxes ( 22.250 .270 , .243 Ackley , .22Lr ) and shot lots and lots of them , but I get no thrill from using the riles , I love to call them close as I can and use the shotgun , in my personal opinion its more of a challenge , but that's just me .

if I can call a fox into 15 yds GREAT , I will do it all day long , the closer the better I say , but I also know that if needed I can flatten a fox out to 45 yrds and in the extreme 50 yrds MAX on clear ground ie fresh drillings

 

another little tip I learnt many yrs ago , was to put out a marker . as most of us know it very hard to judge distance Accurately at night time , so I always have a maker set out at 50 yrds just inside the entrance to my shoot , so when I go out at night I pull up turn the van lights off and shine up the marker with my lamp , just to remind myself EVERY TIME I go just how far it is . I find its like a form of muscle memory .

 

but as you say , each to there own . as long as its done in the correct manner , then its job done .

Edited September 8, 2014 by stevo

[Outdoorsman]

Well after reading through all of this i dont know what to think, i have recently gained more permission and both of the farmers want foxs shooting i only have a sgc for now but want to get started on the foxs but definatly dont want to be undergunned or injuring an animal for no reason. So are we talking static shots or moving here? And are we talking head shots or heart nd lungs? I would feel comfortable taking a shot at a bolting fox even more comfortable at a static but i was going to ask about the cartidges theres that many diffrent opinions on here i dont know what to think if anyone in the know with experience whats to pm me that would be great

[Guest stevo]

only speaking for myself here , but I will only shoot if static , I wont shoot a bolting fox , only because you run the risk of just back ending it ,

best thing you can do , is just bait them up and shoot then about 25 yrds away. with some #1 or #2's

 

if you put your location on your profile , someone with the experience your after will help you out , there are some real gents on here

[fortune]

Has anyone looked at the posts that this person has put on this site? He has asked this same question 3 times out of 11 posts. another of his posts is can I shoot pigeon with a fac. There are a lot of question marks about all of this. Either this person is very inexperienced and asking the same silly question or is some kind of troll merchant. Perhaps the next question will be can I bring down an airliner with my 177 gat gun. 37 replies and he hasn't come back with a comment on any of this.

Edited September 8, 2014 by fortune

[Guest stevo]

Has anyone looked at the posts that this person has put on this site? He has asked this same question 3 times out of 11 posts. another of his posts is can I shoot pigeon with a fac. There are a lot of question marks about all of this. Either this person is very inexperienced and asking the same silly question or is some kind of troll merchant. Perhaps the next question will be can I bring down an airliner with my 177 gat gun. 37 replies and he hasn't come back with a comment on any of this.

you may have a very good point to be honest I never noticed

Edited September 8, 2014 by stevo

[neutron619]

at 40 yrds have a claimed 13 ft lbs each pellet

 

I'm not arguing with anyone who shoots fox with a shotgun (I've got 36g BB's sitting on my shelf, for what it's worth) but isn't it interesting that most forces won't sign off an LR, which will have about 60ftlbs energy remaining at that distance, but that we're allowed to rely on a shotgun loaded with any old thing which - if we choose a sensible load (and there's no guarantee of that) - will only have 13ftlbs remaining...

 

I suppose multiple projectiles mean the chance of a brain strike is higher, but if that's the reasoning they're using, it's a damning indictment on the standard of British rifle shooting. We should protest...

 

Edited September 9, 2014 by neutron619

[Guest stevo]

 

Yeah I know what you mean . But its not worked out like that . If you use a 3.5" size 2 . I think there is very roughly around 180 pellets in there . At 40 yrds say they have 5 ft lbs left . And I get 60 % of my shot in 10 " that works out 108 pellets hit target so that a total of 540 ft lbs of energy in that 10 " Square. lots more than any of the rimfires . Like I said im just guessing on size 2 ballistics . Would have to look it up . Just used it as an example . But I belive its a lot more than 5 ft lbs @ 40 yrds

[dougall]

As you have an fac as I see from one of your previous posts,then a rifle is the most appropriate tool for fox.Yes a shotgun at close range is effective but if your intention is go after Mr Fox then i suggest you go with rifle,assuming the land/your fac conditions etc permit.We shoot @ 60 foxes per annum,at least 50 of which are taken by rifle,yes occasional fox comes too close to a shotgun but there is no way on earth we could stay on top of them with just shotguns.Personally would shoot a fox within 30 yards with any game cartridge,would consider going to max of 40 yards with magnum type loads of larger shot but rarely have those in the gun...but when specifically going after fox would not reach for shotguns,too limiting.

[neutron619]

Yeah I know what you mean . But its not worked out like that . If you use a 3.5" size 2 . I think there is very roughly around 180 pellets in there . At 40 yrds say they have 5 ft lbs left . And I get 60 % of my shot in 10 " that works out 108 pellets hit target so that a total of 540 ft lbs of energy in that 10 " Square. lots more than any of the rimfires . Like I said im just guessing on size 2 ballistics . Would have to look it up . Just used it as an example . But I belive its a lot more than 5 ft lbs @ 40 yrds

 

Ok - don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing that it doesn't work.

 

All I'm saying is that for any projectile to reach the vitals on any quarry from any gun, it has to have enough energy to force it's way through blood, muscle and bone to actually get there and cause a fatal wound. Not one of those projectiles matches the energy of an LR at the same distance, yet they somehow still get through, cause that fatal wound and Charlie falls over. So why don't the police sign off LR for fox? That's all I'm asking.

 

As for "total energy", I want to be kind about this, but it's hard to avoid saying it straight: you're talking nonsense.

 

The total energy imparted by all the projectiles has nothing to do with whether they're lethal / effective or not. You could hit him 1500 times with #12 "dustshot" or hell - rock salt - and still impart 540ftlbs of energy to said fox, but it wouldn't kill him because not one of those 1500 pellets would reach heart, lungs or anything else. You might knock him off his feet, but he'd brush himself off, get up and wander off without much more than a scratch (or 1500).

 

For an example at the opposite end of the scale, I once got hit by a car doing about 10-15mph. Assuming it was about average weight, my body could have received anything up to about 40000ftlbs energy (yes, I bounced) - more than a .50 BMG by some margin. The car, thankfully, did not break through blood, bone and organs to reach my heart / lungs / brain and kill me, however. I was mildly bruised from landing on the floor (which hurt more than the impact of the car).

 

Sure, your 108 pellets give you 107 more chances of getting a projectile through to the vitals than would an LR bullet, but it's still the energy retained by the individual pellet that determines whether that's going to happen. For that reason, the argument against the LR on grounds of humaneness must have something more to do with people's inability to shoot the round well rather than the fact that it is insufficiently energetic / powerful to kill a fox.

Edited September 9, 2014 by neutron619

[Guest stevo]

With the greatest of respect gents . You do things your way . I will do things my way where I see fit . As this will go round and round and round . There wont be any real common ground where this will meet . Haha . .

 

Respectfully yours

[neutron619]

With the greatest of respect gents . You do things your way . I will do things my way where I see fit . As this will go round and round and round . There wont be any real common ground where this will meet . Haha . .

 

Respectfully yours

 

Indeed - best left.

 

*Hat tip.*

[Guest stevo]

 

Indeed - best left.

 

*Hat tip.*

Right back at ya mucker . ;-)

[figgy]

Your better off with a large goose load. Each pellet will have enough energy at sensible range to kill a fox, so multiple strikes will cause a lot of damage.

 

Seen a few killed stone dead at 30 yards with 30g 6 shot when they ran through a drive.

 

Figgy

[MAB1954]

Rifle or Shotgun both have thier place and both are effective if used within thier limits.

 

Shotgun short range, about 40 yards with a shot load patterned as described elsewhere on this thread. Some poeple only have SGC or thier ground is not suitable for a rifle or more likely not approved for a rifle. Under these circumstances a shotgun will do the job.

 

If a rifle is available and can be used safety that opens up a different approach and longer ranges.

 

That's just my view, there's oppertunities for all. I'm lucky I have both.

[Guest stevo]

Rifle or Shotgun both have thier place and both are effective if used within thier limits.

 

Shotgun short range, about 40 yards with a shot load patterned as described elsewhere on this thread. Some poeple only have SGC or thier ground is not suitable for a rifle or more likely not approved for a rifle. Under these circumstances a shotgun will do the job.

 

If a rifle is available and can be used safety that opens up a different approach and longer ranges.

 

That's just my view, there's oppertunities for all. I'm lucky I have both.

Very well and rightly put .

 

Well I think that about wraps this subject well and truly up haha .

 

Fellas its been emotional .

[pistolgrip]

Well you can't say shooters aint passionate best thread i've read for a long time