Shotgun renewal

[palombier]

Mungler

 

I hate to bang on about this but it is important. It is not straightforward as you suggest because you are not reading the act and section in full. The request refers to the production of a document from an overseas visitor. I'll say it again, look in the table of offences in the back of Stones or a copy of the 1968 Firearms Act and you will see that there is no offence. If you are stopped and questioned by police and do not have your licence in your possession, of course you will answer the officer's questions and the Act confers the right, if you fail to produce your certificate, on the constable to seize your weapon and ask for your name and address. Think about it logically do i really commit a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment,if I go out shooting and forget to bring my licence with me and have the misfortune to be stopped and asked to produce my certificate? The Answer is NO. I have made my point and will now leave it for others to judge.

 

Regards

 

P

[OldBill]

Blimey, talk about leading a horse to water...

 

Here is the entire post from a website used by the police and CPS. I have placed the relevant part in red:

 

D1917 / Power of PC to demand production - firearm / shotgun cert

Full View Summary View NARRATIVE Section 48 of the Firearms Act 1968 provides a constable with the power to demand from a person he believes to be in possession of a firearm or shot gun the production of a valid certificate or European pass or to show that his exempt. It states:-

48(1) A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which the holding of a valid firearm certificate is necessary, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm/ shot gun certificate.

 

48(1A) Where a person upon whom a demand has been made by a constable under subsection (1) and whom the constable believes to be in possession of a firearm fails-

 

(a) to produce a firearm/shot gun certificate;

(:unsure: to show that he is a person who, by reason of his place of residence or any other circumstances, is not entitled to be issued with a document identifying that firearm under any of the provisions which in the other member States correspond to the provisions of this Act for the issue of European firearms passes;

or

© to show that he is in possession of the firearm exclusively in connection with the carrying on of activities in respect of which, he or the person on whose behalf he has possession of the firearm, is recognised, for the purposes of the law of another member State relating to firearms, as a collector of firearms or a body concerned in the cultural or historical aspects of weapons,

 

the constable may demand from that person the production of a document which has been issued to that person in another member State under any such corresponding provisions, identifies that firearm as a firearm to which it relates and is for the time being valid.

 

48(2) If a person upon whom a demand is made fails to produce the certificate/document, or to permit the constable to read it, or to show that he is entitled by virtue of this Act to have the firearm, ammunition or shot gun in his possession without holding a certificate, the constable may seize and detain the firearm, ammunition or shot gun and may require the person to declare to him immediately his name and address.

 

48(3) If a person is required to declare to a constable his name and address, it is an offence for him to refuse to declare it or to fail to give his true name and address.

 

48(4) It is an offence for a person who is in possession of a firearm to fail to comply with a demand under subsection 1A above.

 

Notes :

(I) The firearms legislation is intended to impose strict controls and has done so increasingly over the past few years. There appears to be considerable confusion in relation to the interpretation of the word "demand" in Subsection 48(1). Some firearms departments and training schools interpret "demand" as requiring immediate production, while others allow varying periods of time during which the certificate may be produced without penalty.

(ii) Section 48(2) implies the immediate sanction of seizure of the firearm - 'then and there' - upon failure to produce a firearms certificate. In addition the word "fails" is used throughout section 48 without qualification, therefore, if one subsection bites with immediacy it is difficult to see why others should not do so.

(iii) It is therefore the considered view of the PNLD National Research office that "demand" in subsection 48(1) implies immediate production, however, it is advised that this should be tempered with common sense. For example:-

 

(a) a police officer calls at a farmhouse and demands production of the farmers' firearms certificate. The farmer goes upstairs to search through papers for five minutes before he is able to produce his firearms certificate. This would still be immediate production.

( likewise the person who is at say - a county fair, he has with him his firearm and a police officer demands production of his certificate. It is in his car which is in the car park just a couple of minutes away the officer accompanies him and he duly produces the certificate from the glove compartment.

In these instances there is no break in the process of demand and production between the officer and the firearm possessor.

© however, the visiting of other premises or sites by a person with a firearm without possessing his firearm certificate would it is argued lay the firearm possessor open to sanctions.

 

Therefore if the firearm is being moved from the owner's home (where it is presumed there is located both the certificate and the secure cupboard) then the certificate should be carried around.

 

Index to Firearms offences

INTERPRETATION - section 57

Firearms Act 1968

 

MODE OF TRIAL AND PENALTY SUMMARY: A fine not exceeding level three on the standard scale.

POWERS OF ARREST Arrest without warrant

SOURCE(S) Firearms Act 1968

 

RELATED MATERIAL 48 Production of certificate to Police Constable

 

NATIONAL REGION Great Britain

[kip270]

It's here in black & white

 

Require production of Certificates

 

23.8 Section 48 of the 1968 Act provides that a constable may demand from any person believed to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of their firearm certificate, or, as the case may be, their shot gun certificate. Section48(2) of the 1968 Act provides a power to seize weapons and ammunition in cases of non-compliance.

 

This is for UK FAC & SGC holders :unsure:

[Red 9R]

Sorry to drag this up again,

 

Last night had my visit for renewal, nice chap, he inspected my guns checked the numbers were the same as on my ticket checked the cabinet and then did all he paperwork, when he went to leave he wanted to take my current ticket with him, I explained that I am away next week and was going to shoot some clays so would need my ticket to get carts, he gave my ticket back on the advising that I should send it to him as soon as I had bought the cartriges..

I was also advised that if I did not get my new cert before my old one expired it was ok because the new one would be dated from the date the old one expired?? If I got stopped when out I was to show the officer his biz card and get the PC to ring him he would clear me.

 

I don't want to get on the wrong side of him but I don't want to give my current cert back untill I get my new one

This is not a dig at any FLO but I wish all forces would get together and have a clear policy country wide as I think a lot of potential confusion stems from gun owner from different areas talking and getting hence giving different advice.

[al4x]

the simple answer is they take it with them as that can speed the process and save posting things that can get lost. I'd not have a problem handing mine over to my FEO at renewal or for a variation. I'd make sure I'd enough ammo first though. As for carrying it I don't tend to to save loosing it etc, as far as I'm concerned the fact I've got a firearms ticket is on my record, i'll have photo ID with me and be driving my truck thats registered to me and have my FEO's mobile number in my phone so it would be a pretty anal officer to seize the guns and its not like they're hard to get back if so just turn up with your ticket (though I can't see it getting that far)

[mossy835]

never gave my old one back still got it,flo said two keep it incase it got lost in the post and anyone could get it,

[DirtyDeeds]

Just a thought.....

 

I've read posts here where people are carrying their FEO's card with them.... "call them up and check..." Sounds good.

 

Having a photo copy has also been mentioned.

 

Just my thought.... If you have to surrender a certificate for renewal, can not a photo copy of it be taken beforehand, and then on the FEO's visit, get him to sign some form of authority (ie under/across the photo copy) that declares that the holder of the certificate is 'legal' and is having it renewed? Along with the FEO's business card, surely this would give you some form of indemnity if you are asked to produce it.

 

And of course, buy plenty of cartridges first!