Cyrus1988 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 This topic has been done to the death on here but after searching through all the old threads I can't find a definitive answer. I've finally managed to pick up some Vectan AS powder to make up some clays cartridges. I'm after 12G, 70 mm with a 28 gram load of 7.5 shot using CX2000 primers. Clay & Game data states 1.49 grams (23.0 grains) of powder with a Gualandi V-Zero 25 wad gives 1446 fps at 554 bar. However, reading previous posts, people have said that this amount of powder is a bit much and should be reduced but I can't seem to find what the reduced amount should be. On the Nobel Sport website (link below), the second recipe from the left states 1.38 grams (21.3 grains) of powder with a CX2000 primer which gives 1295 fps at 620 bar. Unfortunately, they don't give what wad was used. http://www.nobelsport.it/public/pages/ENG/schedapol.asp?ProdottoID=557&FamigliaID=0 On the Gualandi website (link below) they state 1.40 - 1.45 grams (21.6 - 22.4 grains) of powder with a CX2000 primer, they don't give a wad but I assume it's the Gualandi V-Zero 25, and they don't give speeds or pressures. http://www.gualandi.it/docs/tabpolv_2013_eng.pdf Whatever data I end up using I will be sending it off to the proof house for testing. I've just had my first lot of results back from them on some 32 gram SIPE N cartridges I loaded up, quick turnaround and a pleasure to deal with. If anyone can recommend a good recipe for this powder I'd greatly appreciate it. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 21 grains should see you right. 24-25mm wads are about average. Don't bother sending that off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 21 grains should see you right. 24-25mm wads are about average. Don't bother sending that off. Cheers cookoff, I'll give it a bash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Use 21 grains with a b&p z24 and don't waste your money on proof testing, I have proofed the same load but with 30 grams of shot and it was well in proof and is now listed on the FES website. I've shot loads using 21grains and 28 grams lead it's a good cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Use 21 grains with a b&p z24 and don't waste your money on proof testing, I have proofed the same load but with 30 grams of shot and it was well in proof and is now listed on the FES website. I've shot loads using 21grains and 28 grams lead it's a good cartridge. I saw that recipe on the FES site but wasn't sure about dropping the load down to 28 grams, was going to give John a call and ask. Would I have to raise the shot up a bit for a good crimp due to the decrease in shot? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I saw that recipe on the FES site but wasn't sure about dropping the load down to 28 grams, was going to give John a call and ask. Would I have to raise the shot up a bit for a good crimp due to the decrease in shot? Cheers. It's been a while but I recall the 30 gram load just compresses the crush part of the wad a little more and the 28gram load fits fine in that wad. I also made up a load of 24 gram loads using the same powder charge and a weeto in the bottom of the z24 to fill it out :blink: They broke the clays well too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 It's been a while but I recall the 30 gram load just compresses the crush part of the wad a little more and the 28gram load fits fine in that wad. I also made up a load of 24 gram loads using the same powder charge and a weeto in the bottom of the z24 to fill it out :blink: They broke the clays well too A Weeto?! Amazing! I'll definitely be trying that one out. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 A Weeto?! Amazing! I'll definitely be trying that one out. Thanks again. My experience is that AS works well for anything between 24 and 30 grams of shot so makes a pretty good all round powder for clays and pigeons etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketestace Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Use 21 grains with a b&p z24 and don't waste your money on proof testing, I have proofed the same load but with 30 grams of shot and it was well in proof and is now listed on the FES website. I've shot loads using 21grains and 28 grams lead it's a good cartridge. What Sits said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB1954 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I use 21 grains AS and a B&P T2 wad with 24 grams of shot in a 70mm case, works fine and breaks clays. Got the recipe off someone on here. Glad to see you are still at the loading, hope your enjoying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I use 21 grains AS and a B&P T2 wad with 24 grams of shot in a 70mm case, works fine and breaks clays. Got the recipe off someone on here. Glad to see you are still at the loading, hope your enjoying it. 21 grains seems to be the favourite so will give it a shot. Yes, still reloading and really enjoying it. Just bought myself a new gun for wildfowling so will be looking to make up some 3" Steel loads for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 3" steel is very economical at 36g steel BB and about 30 grains of alliant steel. Check up on some data. Load 2#s for duck and bb for geese. Its not uber fast but decent 30-35 yards loads. Lots of big (ish) shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I've been using 22gr for 28 and 30g of shot, seems a bit cleaner burning (though AS already seems pretty clean), no ill effects at all but never had it checked so use at your own risk. I used both z21 and clay and game's H12 wads, iirc the z21 (b&p) worked best because it left a little more space for the crimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 21 grains should see you right. 24-25mm wads are about average. Don't bother sending that off. +1 for that load. Don't bother sending it off. I use that recipe for all my clay shells. It shoots well and clean. I use the B&P 24 wad with it. Kills clays at distance as well. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 +1 for that load. Don't bother sending it off. I use that recipe for all my clay shells. It shoots well and clean. I use the B&P 24 wad with it. Kills clays at distance as well. Dave Cheers Dave, just out of interest what's the final height of your case once it's crimped with this load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I use Vectan AS and for 28 gr loads i use 18.6 grains it kills at distance and is nice and smooth. used to use 21grains but found i have a bit of muzzle flip so reduced down till i came to 18.6 and this was the best in my gun.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 i use 17-18 grains in my 32gram lead subsonics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketestace Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I use Vectan AS and for 28 gr loads i use 18.6 grains it kills at distance and is nice and smooth. used to use 21grains but found i have a bit of muzzle flip so reduced down till i came to 18.6 and this was the best in my gun.. Iv used the same recipe as above with great success but found it was no way near as clean burning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 That was one of the first things we noticed how clean the barrels were after use.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Cheers Dave, just out of interest what's the final height of your case once it's crimped with this load? I make it 58.76mm but don't quote me as my callipers are on the blink. May need a new battery or a new set of callipers. They were only £19.00 from Halfords. Haven't measured them before as I only shoot clays with my o/u. Used hull and generally if the crimp looks good and you've followed the recipe accurately then you shouldn't have to measure them. It's only when you start playing about with recipies that you need to measure them. I'm not experienced enough to play about with recipies yet. Beware of pressure if you are. Best of luck. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus1988 Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I make it 58.76mm but don't quote me as my callipers are on the blink. May need a new battery or a new set of callipers. They were only £19.00 from Halfords. Haven't measured them before as I only shoot clays with my o/u. Used hull and generally if the crimp looks good and you've followed the recipe accurately then you shouldn't have to measure them. It's only when you start playing about with recipies that you need to measure them. I'm not experienced enough to play about with recipies yet. Beware of pressure if you are. Best of luck. Dave On the cartridges that I just got tested I got an average 25 bar pressure increase when I decreased the the cartridge length from 57.65 mm to 57.15 mm. I'll measure them up after I load them and see how they shoot. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 21.5 grains of AS is enough with a CX2000 primer. 23 grains, in my experience, warrants the use of the milder CX1000 primer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hey Cyrus, can you please let me know what was the final load (primer, wad) and what the data (pressure, speed and stuff) were for both shells heights? thanks, CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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