FAC Question

[dibbz2000]

Hi guys, sorry if this has been asked a million times but I cant find a specific answer to this. I have my shotgun renewal form all done but am applying for FAC to go along with it. I have ample shooting ground in the form of the family farm (300 acres) as-well as numerous neighbors and friends in the area I shoot shotguns for.

 

Now, I am unsure of what caliber rifle to ask for.. I have held my SGC for 10 years with no problem and have handled rifles before but what specifically should I ask for on the ticket. I was thinking .17hmr for the rabbits and .243 for foxes (Of which there are plenty in the area) Would this suffice or is there a more popular choice for the foxes. I have a new 3 gun safe with lockbox so I would like to ask for as much as I can get with this application.

 

Also if I were to opt fir this choice what amount of ammo would you recommend I ask to store? I could just stick these on the application but seems as most you guys have a FAC I thought i'd ask to make this as smooth a process as possible. (Im in Dyfed-Powys authority if that makes a difference)

 

Thanks for reading!!

[jasons gold]

perfectly acceptable calibres, might want to add 22 rim as well so if you want a variation it will be free ie 1 for 1. as for rounds 750/1000 for rimfire 200/300 centre fire unless you reload

[Breastman]

1/ What species are there to be shot?

2/ What is the topography of the land (is it nice and hilly or flat as a pancake)?

3/ Have the police been there to check out the land before and if so what was the max calibre they cleared it for?

 

From personal experience and reading threads on here many FLDs seem to prefer a .22 centrefire for foxes, such as .222, .223, .22-250 etc. .243 is usually regarded as a 'deer calibre'. Obviously if you also have deer thats not a problem as you should get the Any Other Lawful Quarry condition added. Some FLDs think 'deer calibres' are "too much" for foxes, where as others aren't bothered, some of which will be down to the lay of the land i.e. if there are plenty of back stops.

[robbietherimmer]

awrite marra; is your 3 gun safe an extra deep one for rifles? If not then you`ll probably only get 1 rifle/scope and 1 shotgun in it.

if you've the space id go for a 17hmr and a 243

[dibbz2000]

Thanks for the replys! There are plenty of rabbits and foxes roaming the farm and its very hilly ground in mid Wales. Very little flat ground and yes the cabinet is a 6 gun or 3 scoped gun version. If I were to ask for the .243 would the firearms chappie suggest another calibre or just deny it if he were to think it was overpowered? The .17 hmr is the main gun I'm after for the rabbits. Martin

 

P.s breast man as far as I'm aware me my father and my grandfather have only ever asked for SGC so I don't believe its been viewed before.

 

Martin

Edited January 21, 2015 by dibbz2000

[Chrissmith0881]

Unless you have a lot of deer they will more than likely knock you back to a 223 which is a good calibre for fox.

[goodshot]

If he is around Welshpool it will be hilly ,

[seeker]

Have a look at the section on Quarry in the Firearms Guidance Notes ... Link at the top of the section. It will give you an idea of where the FEO should be ... and you can frame your application/ good reason to match what you want ...and don't forget the moderators for each rifle to protect your H&Ss

[dibbz2000]

Good shot is right. I'm 2 miles from welshpool its all hills. Thanks for the advise guys application is winging its way to the firearms dept!!

[WelshMike]

The new FEO is a copper from Newtown who seems a decent and helpful sort of guy. You may struggle to justify a .243 for foxes given the lack of deer (unless you have some of the small populations around Powys Castles ground or Criggion) around Welshpool. See how you go with the .243. If rejected you could go .222, .223, .22-250 etc etc which are all spot on for foxes. I have a .243 which is absolutely spot on. Dont live to far from you by the look of it but lucky enough to shoot deer with a mate in the south west.

 

Good luck.

[dibbz2000]

Thanks Mike, where abouts are you? Will he suggest downgrading or will I have to apply again and pay another fee straight away?

 

Martin

[WelshMike]

I live just outside Meifod. If he does suggest downgrading (he may not) he will probably just amend your paperwork there and then and there shouldnt be any delay or cost.

 

When I had my first FAC 10 years ago I changed from a .22-250 to a .223 and the FEO at the time just changed the form for me.

 

Mike

[dibbz2000]

Okay, cheers for the info! Not far then I'm on top of Pentre-beirdd! As long as I get the 17 I'll be happy!

[WelshMike]

Okay, cheers for the info! Not far then I'm on top of Pentre-beirdd! As long as I get the 17 I'll be happy!

Even closer then you think as I live up at Pentre Beirdd as well.

 

PM me if you want to have a look at my .17 hmrs as I have a CZ452 and an Anschutz 1517.

[neutron619]

Just to be different, in my book, it shouldn't matter what you want and they shouldn't "push you back" to a smaller calibre just because it sounds "less dangerous". Obviously I'm not local, so the other guys here will know better than I, but as you're no doubt well aware, a .243 will kill at 4-5 miles if you shoot it into the sky and so will any one of those alternative .22 calibres mentioned above. No difference in danger if it's accidentally fired / misused there. If you want a .243 and can show a good reason for it (you can) then the law is clear - you have a right to own one. Don't let them push you around.

 

Having said that, in spite of that argument: at the request of a keeper who was taking me stalking I put a 150gr SP from a .308 through a dog fox once. It didn't make it any more or less dead than if I'd have shot it with a .22, but the mess was significant and no fewer than 6 buzzards were circling overhead when we threw (what was left of) him into the hedgerow, so there is such a thing as "too much gun". Given the choice, I'd use a .22 with a reasonably heavy-for-calibre bullet for Charlie.

Edited January 26, 2015 by neutron619

[ferretfiddler]

don't forget the MODS or you will have to pay a variation fee

[dibbz2000]

Yep, I put a mod* down for each gun applied for! Cheers

Edited January 26, 2015 by dibbz2000

[WelshMike]

Just to be different, in my book, it shouldn't matter what you want and they shouldn't "push you back" to a smaller calibre just because it sounds "less dangerous". Obviously I'm not local, so the other guys here will know better than I, but as you're no doubt well aware, a .243 will kill at 4-5 miles if you shoot it into the sky and so will any one of those alternative .22 calibres mentioned above. No difference in danger if it's accidentally fired / misused there. If you want a .243 and can show a good reason for it (you can) then the law is clear - you have a right to own one. Don't let them push you around.

 

Having said that, in spite of that argument: at the request of a keeper who was taking me stalking I put a 150gr SP from a .308 through a dog fox once. It didn't make it any more or less dead than if I'd have shot it with a .22, but the mess was significant and no fewer than 6 buzzards were circling overhead when we threw (what was left of) him into the hedgerow, so there is such a thing as "too much gun". Given the choice, I'd use a .22 with a reasonably heavy-for-calibre bullet for Charlie.

I totally agree with you on this matter unfortunately this isnt always the attitude of the FEOs who make the decision. I find that a 75 grain SST round from the .243 makes a lot more mess then a 130 grain soft point from the .270 but both end up with the fox being dead.

 

Hopefully common sense will prevail and the FEO will approve the .243 but time will tell.

[neutron619]

I find that a 75 grain SST round from the .243 makes a lot more mess then a 130 grain soft point from the .270 but both end up with the fox being dead.

 

That's been my experience too, both from my own shooting and from handling carcasses others have shot - you can always spot the ones plugged from side-to-side with an SP and the ones that weren't.

 

I only use SPs these days and avoid "ballistic tips" (and all the variations on that term) like the plague. As you rightly imply, bullet choice makes a huge difference to terminal effect and I see no use in blowing quarry to bits when killing it cleanly is sufficient.

 

My point was more geared to the idea that a .308 with any bullet is a bit on the large side for fox, that a .243 might be likewise a bit large (which is not a criticism of anyone who chooses to use one, of course) and that I might go for a .22 centrefire out of choice, rather than being "pushed back" to it by an FEO exceeding his remit.

[WelshMike]

 

That's been my experience too, both from my own shooting and from handling carcasses others have shot - you can always spot the ones plugged from side-to-side with an SP and the ones that weren't.

 

I only use SPs these days and avoid "ballistic tips" (and all the variations on that term) like the plague. As you rightly imply, bullet choice makes a huge difference to terminal effect and I see no use in blowing quarry to bits when killing it cleanly is sufficient.

 

My point was more geared to the idea that a .308 with any bullet is a bit on the large side for fox, that a .243 might be likewise a bit large (which is not a criticism of anyone who chooses to use one, of course) and that I might go for a .22 centrefire out of choice, rather than being "pushed back" to it by an FEO exceeding his remit.

All good points. I agree that generally if you are only ever going to shoot foxes a centerfire .22 is the way to go. I shoot a few deer with a friend in Devon and Dorset hence the .243 and .270. I had a .223 for years when I just shot foxes and it was a brilliant calibre.