Are burrs considered normal wear and tear on shotguns?

[Westward]

Well I just had great service from GMK.

 

Let's be hopeful that this one is resolved in a timely manner.

As I recall you had a technical query which was handled well. Where it seems to turn sour is in providing a satisfactory service to people with warranty problems. We spend significant sums on our shotguns and when they go wrong within the warranty period GMK should understand that it's vital to keep the customer informed. Instead, according to the complaints I hear about, all goes silent until the customer gets agitated and asks for updates whereupon they often get fobbed off. See above!

 

By now PeaceFrog should know exactly what's going to happen and when.

[bostonmick]

I believe that a lot of the whines about gmk are from people who have unrealistic expectations.and it seems mostly from those buying the lower priced models.Or maybe it has just become fashionable to slam gmk.

[Paolo180]

I believe that a lot of the whines about gmk are from people who have unrealistic expectations.and it seems mostly from those buying the lower priced models.Or maybe it has just become fashionable to slam gmk.

 

Well said. Only ever had good service from GMK & Beretta approved dealers

[CharlesP]

Actually Westward I had a warranty problem. A fault with a new gun, where the RFD wasn't doing his bit. GMK responded immediately - that is within half an hour. The RFD had been a bit economical with the actualitee as to his status as a Beretta dealer - technically he wasn't one at the time. In fact the whole saga of the acquisition of my new Beretta was a comedy of errors. That wasn't GMK's fault.

 

My problem was not merely a technical query, it required action in the form of spares from GMK. I posted on here to thank them because I believe that when they heard about my problem they did their utmost to get me sorted out. From a gun lacking two components to a complete and functional gun took about 24 hours.

 

Again, thank you GMK.

 

In the context of this thread so far the OP has a problem with his gun, it has been returned to the dealer who was sympathetic, and it's now back with GMK. So far so good. There is nothing to suggest things will go wrong from here.

[Westward]

I believe that a lot of the whines about gmk are from people who have unrealistic expectations.and it seems mostly from those buying the lower priced models.Or maybe it has just become fashionable to slam gmk.

Presumably 'fruity' missed the paragraph in the warranty terms that excludes lower priced models from having to be merchantable quality.

[bostonmick]

Presumably 'fruity' missed the paragraph in the warranty terms that excludes lower priced models from having to be merchantable quality.

It must grieve you sir that the silver pigeon is about the biggest seller in the UK and that beretta are the biggest selling shotguns in the country. Even though people have a choice but it's still so.Any company that was as bad as you would have us believe would have gone out of business years ago not flourished as beretta and gmk have along with the dealers lucky enough to be given a dealership. Atb

[fruity]

I believe that a lot of the whines about gmk are from people who have unrealistic expectations.and it seems mostly from those buying the lower priced models.Or maybe it has just become fashionable to slam gmk.

What a ridiculous statement

[bostonmick]

What a ridiculous statement

Perhaps you could elaborate on how this is so.

[fruity]

Perhaps you could elaborate on how this is so.

Because you don't know my full history and frustration with GMK

You also do not know the value of guns I have purchased from them over the Years

 

On the plus side Beretta europe service is second to none , so I just deal with them

[bostonmick]

Because you don't know my full history and frustration with GMK

You also do not know the value of guns I have purchased from them over the Years

 

On the plus side Beretta europe service is second to none , so I just deal with them

I know exactly the value of guns you have bought from them the same as me nil as gmk do not sell guns direct to the public.nor would I say beretta Europe.You may purchase accessories from them but you can do that via any dealer.Over the years I have owned around fifty beretta shotguns and must say in all that time and all those guns never have i encountered the problems some would have us believe occur. That includes pretty pre gmk days.

[fruity]

I know exactly the value of guns you have bought from them the same as me nil as gmk do not sell guns direct to the public.nor would I say beretta Europe.You may purchase accessories from them but you can do that via any dealer.Over the years I have owned around fifty beretta shotguns and must say in all that time and all those guns never have i encountered the problems some would have us believe occur. That includes pretty pre gmk days.

Ok yes from dealers not GMK as you state.

I congratulate you on the perfect service you have received from them , by your wording and doubt in others, because you receive perfect service and have purchased guns etc from them for many years no one else could possibly better that

 

I bow to bostonmick

[bostonmick]

Ok yes from dealers not GMK as you state.

I congratulate you on the perfect service you have received from them , by your wording and doubt in others, because you receive perfect service and have purchased guns etc from them for many years no one else could possibly better that

 

I bow to bostonmick

This thread started because someone has a small burr on a gun

Now that gun is with gmk and after only a few days people are dragging out loads of criticism of gmk for their own experiences. And alsosuggest that gmk should have people manning call centres to give daily updates on the guns progress. Com on when your cars go in for repairs do the garages call you everyday. I do not know what your own problems have been but if there have been so many I praise you on your loyalty to a brand that has treated you so poorly.All products made by anyone will have failings and sometimes the service will not be what we would like and gmk are not immune to that.your problems are nothing to do with this case.and up to now the op has not received any poor service. So quite why all the doom mongers are out this early I do not know.I can only apologise to you that I am one of the majority of beretta users who have had no cause for complaint.atb

Edited March 14, 2015 by bostonmick

[grrclark]

Mick, you do seem to take it to heart terribly when people level criticism at Beretta or GMK. Just because you are a fan of the brand don't take their comments as an insult to your own values or feelings toward the brand.

 

I agree with you that the majority of people who deal with GMK will make no comment on the service as it falls within their level of expectation, it is typically always those that have a poor or bad service experience that are the most vocal about it. Sometimes, I would agree, that the issue is with rather misplaced expectations and not so much the service, but such is life.

 

To the OP, I hope that the issue is resolved quickly and to your satisfaction. There are a few horror stories about GMK, but consider that as a percentage of the overall volume of service activities carried out the negative ones will be the minority. Your gun will be one of hundreds that they have to deal with, not necessarily as a result of poor quality, but simply arithmetic of having hundreds of thousands of guns in distribution and there will always be a percentage of those that need fixed or serviced.

 

Your gun is the most important single issue to you and that is fair enough, to GMK it is one of many items that are as all equally important to their respective owners as yours is to you. Set your expectations accordingly and be reasonable in doing so and the high likelihood is that you will not be disappointed.

Edited March 14, 2015 by grrclark

[Westward]

Mick, read my post #37 where I accept that Beretta guns are relatively trouble free. I've had 3 and none went wrong in 7 or 8 years of use. But I maintain that the quality of the finished products is not what it was and whilst I don't have figures, I'd bet a healthy sum that their market share has fallen and is continuing to fall.

 

As for your ridiculous comment that I suggested they have a call centre providing daily updates I did no such thing. Have you ever heard of Email or SMS (text messaging). Alternatively, since this is the 21st century, they could easily have a tracking system accessible to the customer who has been previously given a job number. I had a similar system 25 years ago ( pre internet) where anyone in the company could look up the progress on any job going through the workshop.

 

The one thing that peeves customers more than anything else is being kept in the dark and you can defend GMK all night long but they need to learn that fact and realise that without happy customers they don't have a business.

[bostonmick]

Mick, you do seem to take it to heart terribly when people level criticism at Beretta or GMK. Just because you are a fan of the brand don't take their comments as an insult to your own values or feelings toward the brand.

 

I agree with you that the majority of people who deal with GMK will make no comment on the service as it falls within their level of expectation, it is typically always those that have a poor or bad service experience that are the most vocal about it. Sometimes, I would agree, that the issue is with rather misplaced expectations and not so much the service, but such is life.

 

To the OP, I hope that the issue is resolved quickly and to your satisfaction. There are a few horror stories about GMK, but consider that as a percentage of the overall volume of service activities carried out the negative ones will be the minority. Your gun will be one of hundreds that they have to deal with, not necessarily as a result of poor quality, but simply arithmetic of having hundreds of thousands of guns in distribution and there will always be a percentage of those that need fixed or serviced.

 

Your gun is the most important single issue to you and that is fair enough, to GMK it is one of many items that are as all equally important to their respective owners as yours is to you. Set your expectations accordingly and be reasonable in doing so and the high likelihood is that you will not be disappointed.

I can assure you that I take nothing to heart on this or any other forum.It is after all just a little fun way to pass a little time.I can fully understand how frustrated people may get if a repair takes weeks to be done it may in some cases be someone's only gun.Maybe a letter or email to beretta direct may be the best way to get your views on service levels by gmk not a forum that carries no weight with them.I am sure the op's gun will come back fine and give many years of happy service. Atb

[bostonmick]

Mick, read my post #37 where I accept that Beretta guns are relatively trouble free. I've had 3 and none went wrong in 7 or 8 years of use. But I maintain that the quality of the finished products is not what it was and whilst I don't have figures, I'd bet a healthy sum that their market share has fallen and is continuing to fall.

 

As for your ridiculous comment that I suggested they have a call centre providing daily updates I did no such thing. Have you ever heard of Email or SMS (text messaging). Alternatively, since this is the 21st century, they could easily have a tracking system accessible to the customer who has been previously given a job number. I had a similar system 25 years ago ( pre internet) where anyone in the company could look up the progress on any job going through the workshop.

 

The one thing that peeves customers more than anything else is being kept in the dark and you can defend GMK all night long but they need to learn that fact and realise that without happy customers they don't have a business.

My comment was tongue in cheek about the call centre.Maybe I could have phrased it differently. And also I don't know where them smiley things are on this phone.atb

[grrclark]

I can assure you that I take nothing to heart on this or any other forum.It is after all just a little fun way to pass a little time.I can fully understand how frustrated people may get if a repair takes weeks to be done it may in some cases be someone's only gun.Maybe a letter or email to beretta direct may be the best way to get your views on service levels by gmk not a forum that carries no weight with them.I am sure the op's gun will come back fine and give many years of happy service. Atb

 

I don't disagree with you on that front, rhetoric on a forum is simply that.

 

I applaud that you do defend Beretta in the face of the naysayers, but sometimes it appears that you take criticism of Beretta/GMK as almost a personal insult, but I am happy to hear that you don't.

 

Just for clarity, I wasn't criticising, I mostly enjoy reading your posts.

[activeviii]

Good business practice is to keep you customer informed. Even a 2 minute call, once a week will settle most minds.

To keep the idea of their not public based so just keep the smith or RFD informed does not work.

 

To write a letter is the old way, internet, formums, news groups and such, that reach millions of people, seam to be the new way to complaint.

Sow a seed and it will spread, and every man and his dog will think long and hard about buying a product from bad press. Which in turn makes the salesmans job even harder to the point he gives up with the companies that give him stress and push the better and easier importers.

 

I have Beretta's, will not buy more as fed up with the uk importers attitude. Now when I need something I go to Europe as most things are and easy fix and parts are on the doormat within 24hrs.

 

Stupid comment about cheaper guns with issues, comes across as snobbery. Just because its cheap shouldn't mean any less of the service.

 

Toyota, Lexus. Same people, month+ to fix under warrenty on either would not be acceptable would it.

[Gunman]

As the gun is now with GMK would it not be better to wait and see what the out come is before , reams of further speculation , criticism and recriminations . As a member of the trade and have dealt with GMK for many years I have had both good and poor response it seems that they have had numerous people in their workshop some have been more knowledgeable than others . They are not alone in this as many importer/wholesalers seem to have very little product knowledge when it comes to after sales service and can not do any thing unless there is a code or part number if you want spares .

[brett1985]

i dont think there is anything majorly wrong with GMK, i just think they are playing catch up in the customer service department.

not an easy task when you are as busy as they are....

 

my main gripe was the fact that they market themselves as a premium brand and they charge a premium for their goods, and as such they should be acting like one.

if someone comes in to our dealership and buys a car, no matter what model, and they have a warrantable issue then it has to be dealt with swiftly and efficiently.

we have to keep the customer updated AT LEAST once a day untill its fixed.

 

from what i can see, GMK are working towards this but still have a way to go.

 

with regards to the comment in post 52: "I believe that a lot of the whines about gmk are from people who have unrealistic expectations.and it seems mostly from those buying the lower priced models"..... i'm sorry bostonmick, but that is a very outdated way of thinking. you buy a brand like beretta on the basis that your buying the best. it shouldnt matter that your 'only' spending £1000 on a gun, to some thats a hell of a lot of money. beretta have set peoples expectations with their marketing and chest beating, they need to make sure that they have the kahunas to back it up when things go wrong. peoples perception of customer service has changed dramatically over the last 30 years and companies are realising that they NEED to stay on their game if they want to survive. beretta/GMK know this, theyre just too busy to make any drastic changes...

 

the biggest thing for any premium brand isnt preventing foul ups, those are inevitable, its how they deal with the foul ups and how far they go to appease their customers.

my first hand experience with GMK tells me that they are getting that right most of the time.

 

maybe in a couple of years time they will have had time to catch up completely, and we will no longer get these 'hit and miss' reports on their customer service.

Edited March 16, 2015 by brett1985

[bostonmick]

i dont think there is anything majorly wrong with GMK, i just think they are playing catch up in the customer service department.

not an easy task when you are as busy as they are....

 

my main gripe was the fact that they market themselves as a premium brand and they charge a premium for their goods, and as such they should be acting like one.

if someone comes in to our dealership and buys a car, no matter what model, and they have a warrantable issue then it has to be dealt with swiftly and efficiently.

we have to keep the customer updated AT LEAST once a day untill its fixed.

 

from what i can see, GMK are working towards this but still have a way to go.

 

with regards to the comment in post 52: "I believe that a lot of the whines about gmk are from people who have unrealistic expectations.and it seems mostly from those buying the lower priced models"..... i'm sorry bostonmick, but that is a very outdated way of thinking. you buy a brand like beretta on the basis that your buying the best. it shouldnt matter that your 'only' spending £1000 on a gun, to some thats a hell of a lot of money. beretta have set peoples expectations with their marketing and chest beating, they need to make sure that they have the kahunas to back it up when things go wrong. peoples perception of customer service has changed dramatically over the last 30 years and companies are realising that they NEED to stay on their game if they want to survive. beretta/GMK know this, theyre just too busy to make any drastic changes...

 

the biggest thing for any premium brand isnt preventing foul ups, those are inevitable, its how they deal with the foul ups and how far they go to appease their customers.

my first hand experience with GMK tells me that they are getting that right most of the time.

 

maybe in a couple of years time they will have had time to catch up completely, and we will no longer get these 'hit and miss' reports on their customer service.

I was quite prepared to take on board your comments up until you used the motor trade as a measure of customer service and quality.I fail to see where a daily phone call to inform you that your item has not yet been repaired in anyway constitutes good Service.Also with your business you deal with the customer direct. it is down to the dealer to chase and liase with in this case gmk.Also I would be interested to hear about other makers of guns who give daily reports by phone or email.in my own experience a call to browning a few years ago met with We do not deal with the public go through your dealer. Atb

[Paolo180]

Maybe I've been a little impatient in that I've asked for an update everyday now

Dude at the shop made it sound like I could have it back this week, at least that is what I thought I heard, could be mistaken.

Today's update from GMK has told my dealer that someone is on holiday but is back Monday and that my gun is a priority, I am choosing to believe GMK haha. I don't think 5/6 weeks is acceptable at all and if they aren't careful my letter to GMK will get even sterner

 

Right it's Monday and hopefully you've had an update from GMK, seems this hot topic is rolling, any news.

[brett1985]

I was quite prepared to take on board your comments up until you used the motor trade as a measure of customer service and quality.I fail to see where a daily phone call to inform you that your item has not yet been repaired in anyway constitutes good Service.Also with your business you deal with the customer direct. it is down to the dealer to chase and liase with in this case gmk.Also I would be interested to hear about other makers of guns who give daily reports by phone or email.in my own experience a call to browning a few years ago met with We do not deal with the public go through your dealer. Atb

1. you've missed the point and/or chosen to skip over it as you invariably always do...

 

2. a daily phone call is a minimum for a customer who has a major fault and a part is on back order with either the factory or a supplier. some parts can be back ordered for months if there is a problem.

 

3. the motor trade is a perfect example as a measure of customer service and quality. ok, maybe not when it comes to citroen or kia, but when your in the realms of Audi, BMW, mercedes or Jaguar your then dealing with people who spend more on 1 car than most others do on 2,3 or even 4 cars.

these customers demand the highest level of customer service, and wont accept excuses like 'well you only bought an entry level car so your further down the priority list'

 

next to fully fledged hospitality roles, the motor industry customers are one of toughest to please when it comes to customer service. and also the most demanding.

 

when you have £65000 tied up in a car you expect top rate service, and if that level of expected service falls short then you expect something to be done about it.

just like if you have £5000 tied up in a shotgun and it developes a fault, you expect something to be done about it.

 

now in all fairness, im not sure wether you read my first post or just skipped to the bit you didnt like. personally, i couldnt give a tuppence. i just wish you would stop picking bloomin holes in everything and accept that in some peoples minds GMK have, in some instances, fallen short of their customers expectations.

 

i stood up for them in my last post, and will continue to stand up for them, however i can admit that they are flawed when it comes to delivering a premium customer service to match their premium branding.

 

you, on the other hand, are comparable to the owner who refuses to put down a dog that bites. you'll find any excuse to make it the 'victims' fault.

you cant see the wood for the trees my friend...

Edited March 16, 2015 by brett1985

[grrclark]

Brett, without wishing to pour fuel on the fire of a fairly pointless argument, the motor trade is maybe not the best analogue to use as a comparison of service.

 

The margin on a gun purchase comes from the sale itself, the customer service experience really comes from the dealer where they wish to tempt the customer back in for other sales of accessories, ammunition or clothing, etc.

 

The motor industry is more geared up towards an ongoing level of positive customer experience as service revenues are seen as a significant income stream and customers are more costly to win and expensive to lose. There is a wealth of choice and competition in the motor trade, not just in the choice of manufacturers, but also the number of dealers, that extends to financing possibilities too.

 

Not withstanding any of the above, the pursuit of better customer service is a good thing and it might do no harm for the likes of GMK or whoever to try and replicate the service experience of a premium car brand, but most tellingly they don't have to as their is nothing commercially to compel them to have to.

 

In order to get to the level of service that you describe they would have to make investment, they would need CRM systems to track who the customer is and what they have to say, they would need work order management systems in order for their customer service staff to be able to call the customer with an update of what is happening in the workshop, that will only happen with an inflated price on the guns.

 

I would wager that GMK, et al still very much employ people based process control. There will be a tie on label attached to the gun with a brief fault description and customer details and that will be as sophisticated as they get.

 

The motor industry generally have pretty slick systems as they are overtly sales focussed. GMK have a rep in a car who maintains a personal relationship with a limited amount of dealers in their patch, it is a world of difference in execution, although the premise is the same.

 

You are spot on that their approach is archaic compared to highly competitive retail and service environments, but until their is a compelling commercial argument to change then it will stay that way.

 

I think that is why CG did so well in the USA they approached a much bigger and more dynamic market with a customer focussed retail and service strategy and are highly complimented on that, but the UK is a much smaller pond.

 

Just to be a wee bit contentious my experience with Audi is that the car purchased led to a very different experience in service returned, when I had my A8 they fell over themselves to help me out, premium courtesy car, technician at the door to diagnose and then a recovery vehicle to take it away quickly, car returned at my convenience, etc. Hugely pro-active and very impressive.

 

Very different experience to my mate had with his A3, albeit it was still well handled, but to a much lesser standard.

 

I have witnessed similar with Mercedes too.

 

Despite all of my rambling above I do agree with you that all the gun manufacturers and distributors could do with improving their customer experience all the way down through the supply chain. They are atrocious in that respect.

Edited March 16, 2015 by grrclark

[PeaceFrog]

Got an update shooters,

 

I got a email today from my dealer to phone GMK to resolve the issue. I called the number and spoke to the person in charge of my gun, he agreed with me that the burring was unacceptable and has replaced the barrels and action of my gun so the only thing that isn't being replaced is the wood. I accepted this as it seems fair to me seeing as there was no problem in the wood work and I really like the grain I got.

He said I should be able to pick my gun up this Wednesday, so from drop off to pick up equals from the 9th to the 18th which I rate as satisfactory and acceptable, couldn't really see it being much quicker really.

 

So as long as I get it back Wednesday and the gun is as promised and is orderly, GMK did good in my book.