Jay_Russell Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Ive been using two different guns for pigeon shooting just lately both 12g. firstly my o/u which weighs about 7 and half pounds and ive been using clear pigeon no6 30g fibre Second gun ive been using is an aya sbs which weighs over a pound less and through this ive been using hull imperial game 28g fibre no7 shot. Now aa my sbs is lighter id of thought felt recoil would be fairly similar but with the clear pigeon in the o/u the recoil is much harsher and a lot louder bang. What makes a cart recoil more, id of thought the difference wouldnt be much because of the weight difference between the guns but there definately is a lot of difference. The sbs does fit better so im sure that plays a part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Have you tried swapping the shells in both guns ? Sounds a little as though the Clear Pigeon shells are just a bit thumpier, most likely because they're faster as well as the fact the load is slightly more as well. Game loads tend to be a bit on the slow side because manufacturers know they tend to be used in lighter field guns. Fit is very important but rarely to the extent of making a heavier O/U gun seem harsher than a S/S, it would have to be majorly off in which case you'd have noticed. Edited May 18, 2015 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 what is the barrel length of both these "guns" ? and also that may have a differential in speed as the "back boring" / "sub bore". but also the x factor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The o/u has 28inch barrels the aya is 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The o/u has 28inch barrels the aya is 25 yep. that`ll do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The weight of the load plus the weight of the powder/wad behind it multiplied by the speed it is coming out will give you the recoil. On the shotgun end, the weight of the gun is the differentiating factor (for fixed breech guns). So heavier loads going faster through a lighter gun will be the worst combo. In your case you've got a heavier load (about 5% heavier plus or minus the difference in powder/wad) going roughly the same speed (both around 1400). So the cartridge is producing a bit more recoil. How you experience that recoil will be different. The SxS is lighter, but if it fits you better then often the recoil won't feel as sharp even though there is more of it. Also, different powder burn rates tend to give different felt recoil profiles. Clear pigeons are sold on cost, so cheaper powder is used. That means a little more bark for the same performance compared to a premium load. thanks rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 yep. that`ll do it. It would have done had he been siting the Side by Side as harsher/louder but it's the OU that he is finding recoils more. On present information and without having all the weights of the guns as well as speeds of the shells the only real thing you can go by is that the Clear Pigeon shells are more thumpy, certainly the extra noise points that way too since if anything the short barrelled SS ought to produce more flip and noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yeah that was kind of why i posted i guess its a mixture of differing powders and prob gun fit they both fit but the sbs fits perfect. I was tempted to try the clear pigeon through my sbs but i havnt got the guts lol. A friend fishing near by says the clear pigeon do sound punchy tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yeah that was kind of why i posted i guess its a mixture of differing powders and prob gun fit they both fit but the sbs fits perfect. I was tempted to try the clear pigeon through my sbs but i havnt got the guts lol. A friend fishing near by says the clear pigeon do sound punchy tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I have found gamebore carts to be punchier in comparison to say Hull or Fiochii Similar loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) How much effect on recoil is there from excess headspace? I remember reading an old Gough Thomas article in Shooting Times and he reckoned excess headspace has a significant effect on recoil and suggested various ways to fix it. if so, I would have thought there are significant variations in rim thickness between cartridge manufacturers giving rise to different recoil charecteristics in the same gun. Edited May 19, 2015 by TriBsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Not being funny but the hull imperial game loads are designed to be shot out of light side by side guns and they are a silky smooth and capable cartridge 28 gram 7.5 hull comp x seems to recoil more than my 28 gram hull imperial game when shot out of the same guns. I have shot plenty of 30 gram clear pigeon and I'm not fond of them. ( all my guns weigh 7lbs or less and i shoot almost exclusively imperial game shells ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Any slight increase in velocity with such a at the end of the day heavy payload in going to get noticed! More is better syndrome makes people think another 50fps has to be better but forget the cost in recoil and their scores don't really get any better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 guys. recoil is not subjective of powder burn rate, the speed and payload of the shell is. 1-i did experiment 24g steel 1400fps and 24g lead at 1400fps. recoil is the same. 2- burn rates were very fast powder vs slow powder (magnum 12gauge / !) cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliver90owner Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Momentum must be conserved. That is a basic rule of physics. Momentum is the product of mass and velocity. Simple as that. I think here in old units (which is unusual) that if you have one ounce going at 600mph in one direction the gun (100 ounces) will go at 6mph in the opposite direction. If that hits you, it hurts, but if there is a large mass of your shoulder and other parts of your upper torso to add to that 100 ounces, the resultant velocity of the gun will be much less. Same amount of energy (1/2 mv^2) to dissipate but absorbed over a longer time span will lessen the bruising! Loose actions will accentuate any recoil felt as the impulse will be of shorter duration and recoil pads help, but good gun fit to the shooter is a large factor in feeling the recoil. Just try it; gun into shoulder and then slightly away. Even position and grip on the fore-end can make a difference. The other point ignored is the mass of the wadding - it will make a small difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.